Immigration of religious fanatics

[Argus]

21 hours ago, Omni said:

They are being screened with regard to realistic and verifiable issues, not some arbitrary questions about what Kellie Leitch reckons could determine what Canadian values are.   

But people are screened by personality tests for jobs millions of times a year, and I'm not aware of anyone successfully suing on account of being turned down. And that's for people in Canada. How do you think some guy in Pakistan is going to sue over it?

[Rue]

55 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

The War Measures Act was repealed years ago, you must mean the Emergencies Act.

. 

I stand corrected yes indeed the Emergencies Act.

The incident you refer to deals with excessive police force and that decision was made by the Chief of Police not politicians.

In the case of the War Measures Act, public domain now shows the decision was initiated by Trudeau, at the strong urging of Jerome Choquette, the then Justice Minister of Quebec and Mayor Jean Drapeau. Robert Bourassa in fact on the day the decision was made had a nervous breakdown and was on medication in his apartment.

One decision was solely a police decision. The other solely a politician decisiding.

In fact the police, i.e., Montreal Police, Surete de Quebec and RCMP  advised Trudeau not to invoke the War Measures Act. They saw no need for it.

They felt it would make matters worse.

Its easy for me in hindsight to second guess the decision. I admit that.

That said and not straying off the topic, it doesn't take much in democracies to suspend rights, political, human or otherwise in times of crisis. The question is can you bring them back once you take them away. In history the lesson usually is when you take a right away it doesn't come back.

Where Canada will be in 50 years is anyone's guess but if it continues to see its population remain coagulated in cities in ghettos and not move North away from the American border there will be expected civil disobedience in cities from the over-crowding alone.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Rue

[Argus]

22 hours ago, Omni said:

Maybe re read the article I posted earlier and you will see that there are skilled people doing the screening. I can only imagine what kind of a mess you might make of it left to your own xenophobic devices.

There's nothing xenophobic about practical reality. I've already proven that there are extremist views in great numbers in many Muslim countries. I can see no reason why we wouldn't screen for those - unless of course, you're someone with extre3mist views yourself who agrees with them.

And when i say extremist I'm not just talking about a high percentage who believe apostates, blasphemers and homosexuals should be executed, but people with a medieval social view about life, about government, and a rigid mindset of moral behavior which comes straight from the Koran.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Argus

[Argus]

18 hours ago, Omni said:

OK so exactly what are these Canadian Values you speak of and how would you propose to question a potential immigrant/refugee in such a way as to confirm they would uphold those values in such a way as to appease you?

I'm not a guy who has expertise in putting together these kinds of tests. As I've already said, and posted, the tests do not ask direct questions because most people will lie about personality traits that employers wouldn't care to employ, so they ask peripheral questions, talking around the subject, so to speak.

[drummindiver]

59 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

The War Measures Act was repealed years ago, you must mean the Emergencies Act.

No the single most fascist act was Stephen Harper at his gala party for 19 of his friends in 2010 that cost mega billions and resulted in the arrest of 1000 innocent civilians, including some being shot with rubber bullets by mentally ill cops. There was no act of terrorism, unlike the FLQ crisis that involved years of violence and kidnapping and murder. 

Arrwesting  thousands of thugs trashing the city usung Black Block tactics is hardly fascist. 

[?Impact]

12 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

Arrwesting  thousands of thugs trashing the city usung Black Block tactics is hardly fascist. 

No, they also arrested a couple of those, but mostly the dumb cops just ignored them. Most of the people they rounded up however were innocent, they stupidity of the cops ignoring the thugs was broadcast on television so the next day they decide to be even more insane and round up anyone. They told people who wanted to protest, they could do so at Queens parks which is a couple of kilometres away from the G20, and then the thugs swooped into Queens park and arrested the peaceful protestors. They also blocked off large areas and took in anyone that was there, if you happened to be shopping and came out of a store the idiotic cops arrested you. That was the most embarrassing episode in so called law enforcement in Canadian history, the second was the followup when nothing was done except a few slaps on the wrist for some of the low level cops that were caught on camera. There should have been several senior cops serving serious hard time for the G20.

[Argus]

Let's say these are the sorts of attitudes we would rather not see imported into Canada in large numbers.

Too many Muslim men are misogynists
If the West carries on admitting large numbers of migrants it must insist they respect our values

I was not surprised by the mass sexual attacks against German women during New Year’s Eve celebrations in Cologne. Shocked by the scale and the audacity of them, yes, but not remotely surprised. When Angela Merkel announced her decision to take in 800,000 refugees this summer, my sisters and I immediately predicted that this was going to lead to big problems for Western women. In 1993, when I was 17 and my sister were 12 and 11, our family moved to the Turkish capital, Ankara, because of my father’s job with the UN’s refugee agency, the UNHCR. For the next two years we were leered at, jeered at, hissed at, groped and touched, again and again and again, every single time we left the house.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12095984/Muslim-men-considered-us-to-be-whores.html

So, which Arabs have the most negative views of western women? Well, probably those from the most conservative societies. "From my personal experience, the worst Arab men I found were the ones from Saudi Arabia," a journalist with a leading Portuguese newspaper told me. "They think that all foreign women are prostitutes and they try to treat them like that."

What is behind this belief that western women are somehow sex-crazed? Part of it relates to the conservative Arab fixation on women's sexuality in general. According to this outlook, women's sexual appetites are so insatiable that, if they are left to their own devices, they turn into uncontrollable nymphomaniacs and temptresses luring men to crash into the rocks of lust.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/nov/10/arab-myth-of-western-women

Muslim men rape non-Muslim women (and girls) in disproportionately high numbers in countries with growing Muslim minority populations. Rape of infidel women is part of Islamic law and Islamic tradition. As such, it’s been going on for centuries.

This article is about the current threat Muslim rapists pose to non-Muslim women. In order to keep this article to a reasonable length, the focus is on the rape epidemic in Europe, but suffice it to say rape jihad is a gruesome reality the world over.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/11/islam_rape_and_the_fate_of_western_women.html

[?Impact]

13 minutes ago, Argus said:

For the next two years we were leered at, jeered at, hissed at, groped and touched, again and again and again, every single time we left the house.

Yes, there is a lot of intolerance in society. Thankfully some countries like Canada have made significant progress towards stamping it out. Years ago I remember hearing many comments about others, things like people shouting to Sikhs to take that diaper off their head. Today it is a lot less common to hear this sort of thing, but every so often we will hear how a woman was treated because of her hair covering. I'm sure that even today Ankara is far worse that Canada has ever been during my lifetime, but people do change. In a multicultural society, people learn to live together and their attitudes adapt.

[Omni]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

But people are screened by personality tests for jobs millions of times a year, and I'm not aware of anyone successfully suing on account of being turned down. And that's for people in Canada. How do you think some guy in Pakistan is going to sue over it?

Your question makes no sense.

[Argus]

48 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Yes, there is a lot of intolerance in society. Thankfully some countries like Canada have made significant progress towards stamping it out.

Then I'm sure you'll agree we don't want it re-introduced by bringing over hundreds of thousands of people with deeply misogynistic cultural beliefs.

[Army Guy]

 

3 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Yes, there is a lot of intolerance in society. Thankfully some countries like Canada have made significant progress towards stamping it out. Years ago I remember hearing many comments about others, things like people shouting to Sikhs to take that diaper off their head. Today it is a lot less common to hear this sort of thing, but every so often we will hear how a woman was treated because of her hair covering. I'm sure that even today Ankara is far worse that Canada has ever been during my lifetime, but people do change. In a multicultural society, people learn to live together and their attitudes adapt.

Just to pause a second here, So we agree that Canada has a lot of intolerance, but a lot less than some of the most liberal or westernized muslim countries such as Turkey. So much so that you described it as far worse than you ever seen in your life time......Did you just paint a entire country, sorry city, with the same brush....every citizen in Ankara , Turkey is far worse than any Canadian you've meet in your life time....WOW....so knowing this, Explain to some of us why we have to take in Immigrants or refugees from these areas. When it is clear that our cultures clash, and will continue to clash for generations to come. 

Is it some Canadian need to change them, or that we are lacking in our multi cultural society a muslim element of some sort. 

 

Quote

 

I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation of how bringing in hundreds of thousands of people who oppose many of those ideals is a good idea, particularly when Canada's own immigration department has identified the Middle East as one of the areas in the world which produce the least economically successful immigrants to Canada. 

Europe, on the other hand, produces the MOST economically successful immigrants to Canada, and also is home to broad support for most of the same values as we hold in Canada.

 

 

Why is there a need to recruit persons from this region, if even a liberal mind poster sees them as intolerant. 

[?Impact]

6 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Did you just paint a entire country, sorry city, with the same brush....every citizen in Ankara , Turkey is far worse than any Canadian you've meet in your life time....WOW....so knowing this, Explain to some of us why we have to take in Immigrants or refugees from these areas.

No, I said the situation is far worse. I didn't say it was hopeless, or that it affected everyone. What is more important, what I clearly did say but you refused to listen is that people do change. I have seen this change during my lifetime here in Canada. Attitudes of immigrants and refugees also change, I know this from firsthand experience living in Europe where my attitudes and outlook changed. Being immersed in differs cultures does affect people. One of the best aspects of multiculturalism (and yes there are negatives ones as well) is that people quickly learn that different cultures with different practices are composed of people not much different than ourselves. They are people trying to life, thrive, raise a family, etc. They learn and accept cultural differences, just like we accept that some women choose to wear a hijab they accept that other women choose not to. Yes, there are intolerant ones still on both sides, just scroll up through previous pages here to see. People do change however, we now even have Conservatives talking about gay rights where 10 years ago they were fighting bitterly tooth an nail against it.

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, ?Impact said:

No, they also arrested a couple of those, but mostly the dumb cops just ignored them. Most of the people they rounded up however were innocent, they stupidity of the cops ignoring the thugs was broadcast on television so the next day they decide to be even more insane and round up anyone. They told people who wanted to protest, they could do so at Queens parks which is a couple of kilometres away from the G20, and then the thugs swooped into Queens park and arrested the peaceful protestors. They also blocked off large areas and took in anyone that was there, if you happened to be shopping and came out of a store the idiotic cops arrested you. That was the most embarrassing episode in so called law enforcement in Canadian history, the second was the followup when nothing was done except a few slaps on the wrist for some of the low level cops that were caught on camera. There should have been several senior cops serving serious hard time for the G20.

Just for the record was anyone charged for all those burning cars or store front windows that were broken and stores looted....and Who goes shopping when their is a riot going on, or is that how you guys roll in Ontario. the Smell of tear gas was not a hint, nor was the large crowds of angry people.

[?Impact]

Just now, Army Guy said:

Who goes shopping when their is a riot going on

There was no riot going on. Yes there were some isolated problems the day before, but Toronto was not a war zone. The cops screwed up on day one, and to compensate they screwed up much worse the other way on day two. This is about stupid beat cops, and criminal supervisory cops. 

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

No, I said the situation is far worse. I didn't say it was hopeless, or that it affected everyone. What is more important, what I clearly did say but you refused to listen is that people do change. I have seen this change during my lifetime here in Canada. Attitudes of immigrants and refugees also change, I know this from firsthand experience living in Europe where my attitudes and outlook changed. Being immersed in differs cultures does affect people. One of the best aspects of multiculturalism (and yes there are negatives ones as well) is that people quickly learn that different cultures with different practices are composed of people not much different than ourselves. They are people trying to life, thrive, raise a family, etc. They learn and accept cultural differences, just like we accept that some women choose to wear a hijab they accept that other women choose not to. Yes, there are intolerant ones still on both sides, just scroll up through previous pages here to see. People do change however, we now even have Conservatives talking about gay rights where 10 years ago they were fighting bitterly tooth an nail against it.

Yes they do change, but most of the time the change your looking for takes generations to effect, I to lived in Germany for 8 years, and while i adjusted very easily , their culture was very similar to ours, and for the most part the language barrier was the hardest to over come..Not that hard really. Please note i lived there in the 90's, a lot has changed since then.

I've also lived in the middle east, 12 months in israel, and Golan Heights in Syria, plus 19 months in Afghanistan, and a couple of weeks in Dubia.....and i can say it is going to take more than a generation to effect change in those countries. why because their religion does not efford change. 

I'll ask the question again, why do we need to recruit people in these regions ? why can we not recruit from other areas of the globe....

[Army Guy]

15 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

There was no riot going on. Yes there were some isolated problems the day before, but Toronto was not a war zone. The cops screwed up on day one, and to compensate they screwed up much worse the other way on day two. This is about stupid beat cops, and criminal supervisory cops. 

Something was going on, or are you saying cops were just roaming the streets picking up people for any reason...Why even go near that section of the city unless you lived there. and if so, would it not be good advise to stay indoors until it was all over. You mention stupid cops, who for the most part have no training in this type of event, not like it happens every month or year..so yes things went wrong, a few of your rights got stepped on. Canada may not be perfect, but i'll take living here over any place in the world. I thank god daily for allowing me to do so.

[?Impact]

5 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

it is going to take more than a generation to effect change in those countries. why because their religion does not efford change. 

I'll ask the question again, why do we need to recruit people in these regions ? why can we not recruit from other areas of the globe....

I agree, but we are not talking about changing countries are we? We are talking about immigrants moving to Canada.

I never said we need to recruit people from those regions, I am not all that sure that our immigration policies are benefitting Canadians in general. The whole immigrations policies as to numbers should be reviewed. As far as who we recruit, that comes down to several factors based on class. Certainly there is some benefit to us in bringing in skilled professionals, but we should also recognize that depletes many of these regions of the very people that will help them progress forward. There is also a place for family reunification, but we don't want to develop a policy where we bring in one contributing immigrant and follow it on with parents, 17 cousins, etc. There needs to be limits on what is appropriate.

Recognize that refugees and immigrants are based on completely different criteria. I don't know how many immigrants we are accepting from this part of the world compared to others, but that would be worth investigating.

One reason however to bring in immigrants from different parts of the world is about the larger responsibility to help bring down the intolerance between different cultures. The better different people around the world understand each other, the better our chances as a global community to get along. The old colonial policies of western nations forcing our people and systems into other countries is a dismal failure, and isolationism has never worked either. Nothing is going to happen overnight, we have to keep our eye on the future. Instead of just seeing the negatives of the future, those vile Muslims from the middle-ages, we need to see that both their and our culture will evolve over time to be more accepting and tolerant of others.

[?Impact]

14 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Why even go near that section of the city unless you lived there. and if so, would it not be good advise to stay indoors until it was all over. 

So is Stephen Harper going to personally compensate Toronto for closing down for several days so he can hold his stupid party. This was a idiotic idea to begin with, but expecting people to just stop living is ridiculous. Yes, some of us could see the stupidity from the writing on the wall long before. I was living just north of Toronto at the time, I decided to go on a kayak trip about 500km away and as I would have been away for the long weekend anyway I decided to take several more days off before and after the anticipated fiasco. Not everyone however had that opportunity, and more importantly they should not have to uproot their lives just because Harper wanted to show off on Canada's credit card.

No, it is not good advice to be told by the fascist Harper to stay indoors. Far better to tell him to screw off.

[Army Guy]

8 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

I agree, but we are not talking about changing countries are we? We are talking about immigrants moving to Canada.

I never said we need to recruit people from those regions, I am not all that sure that our immigration policies are benefitting Canadians in general. The whole immigrations policies as to numbers should be reviewed. As far as who we recruit, that comes down to several factors based on class. Certainly there is some benefit to us in bringing in skilled professionals, but we should also recognize that depletes many of these regions of the very people that will help them progress forward. There is also a place for family reunification, but we don't want to develop a policy where we bring in one contributing immigrant and follow it on with parents, 17 cousins, etc. There needs to be limits on what is appropriate.

Recognize that refugees and immigrants are based on completely different criteria. I don't know how many immigrants we are accepting from this part of the world compared to others, but that would be worth investigating.

One reason however to bring in immigrants from different parts of the world is about the larger responsibility to help bring down the intolerance between different cultures. The better different people around the world understand each other, the better our chances as a global community to get along. The old colonial policies of western nations forcing our people and systems into other countries is a dismal failure, and isolationism has never worked either. Nothing is going to happen overnight, we have to keep our eye on the future. Instead of just seeing the negatives of the future, those vile Muslims from the middle-ages, we need to see that both their and our culture will evolve over time to be more accepting and tolerant of others.

Well if those Countries have displayed the will not to change, in fact none of them have expressed the need to change or become less oppressive. why is that because their religion forbids it.....But the new wave of technology and our uncontrollable need to hug everyone has lead us down this path....we have tried our systems onto other countries , it failed, leaving those countries to their own devices , has failed, now we want to invite them into our country, and turn them into Canadians by constant hugging....which is no different than forcing our systems onto them, i mean do you think they just want to be Canadian ...if so why can't they be converted in their own homelands...... but that is not where you want to stop is it.....we have to compromise, to make everything all nice, so what do we give up, and what do they gain to make all this work....

[Army Guy]

12 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

So is Stephen Harper going to personally compensate Toronto for closing down for several days so he can hold his stupid party. This was a idiotic idea to begin with, but expecting people to just stop living is ridiculous. Yes, some of us could see the stupidity from the writing on the wall long before. I was living just north of Toronto at the time, I decided to go on a kayak trip about 500km away and as I would have been away for the long weekend anyway I decided to take several more days off before and after the anticipated fiasco. Not everyone however had that opportunity, and more importantly they should not have to uproot their lives just because Harper wanted to show off on Canada's credit card.

No, it is not good advice to be told by the fascist Harper to stay indoors. Far better to tell him to screw off.

Voicing your opinion has a cost then, that cost is getting arrested, or hurt in a riot or worse....One could have told harper to screw off many different ways , registered letter, e-mail, a sign in the city, any ways you get the point.....My point i was making is you can not fight city hall and expect to win.

[Smallc]

In hindsight, it was probably a bad idea to hold the G20 in one of the world's Alpha cities.

[kimmy]

1 hour ago, Smallc said:

In hindsight, it was probably a bad idea to hold the G20 in one of the world's Alpha cities.

It's not even hindsight... everybody said as much at the time. There's no way it should have cost a billion dollars to provide security. And it wouldn't have if they'd held it someplace more secure rather than in the middle of Toronto.

 -k

[Smallc]

7 hours ago, kimmy said:

It's not even hindsight... everybody said as much at the time. There's no way it should have cost a billion dollars to provide security. And it wouldn't have if they'd held it someplace more secure rather than in the middle of Toronto.

 -k

In fairness, IIRC, it came in significantly under budget at somewhere between $600-800M.  But you're right, and I was, wrong at the time.

[drummindiver]

14 hours ago, ?Impact said:

No, they also arrested a couple of those, but mostly the dumb cops just ignored them. Most of the people they rounded up however were innocent, they stupidity of the cops ignoring the thugs was broadcast on television so the next day they decide to be even more insane and round up anyone. They told people who wanted to protest, they could do so at Queens parks which is a couple of kilometres away from the G20, and then the thugs swooped into Queens park and arrested the peaceful protestors. They also blocked off large areas and took in anyone that was there, if you happened to be shopping and came out of a store the idiotic cops arrested you. That was the most embarrassing episode in so called law enforcement in Canadian history, the second was the followup when nothing was done except a few slaps on the wrist for some of the low level cops that were caught on camera. There should have been several senior cops serving serious hard time for the G20.

There's no making people happy. Pissed off if you arrest them,  pissed off if you don't. Im glad the police reacted the way they did after this emberassment. People knew what would happen if they went to those areas,  so no pity party please. 

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by drummindiver

[?Impact]

38 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

There's no making people happy. Pissed off if you arrest them,  pissed off if you don't.

Sure there is an easy way to make people happy. Arrest the criminals, and leave innocent people alone. The dumb cops did the exact opposite.