Immigration of religious fanatics

[OftenWrong]

13 hours ago, Omni said:

My point is that all religions place, or have placed inappropriate limits on people. And Christians are as much murderers as anybody else due to those professors of fear. We have advanced somewhat, but we're not squeaky clean, although I agree we have advanced by simply being able to afford education so we could cast off the strange beliefs. Tarring all Muslim's with the same brush would be the same as tarring all Christians with the same brush. I used to drink beer in a hotel in Dubai with Muslim men and women. Believe it or not.

There are differences. It's not a religion that's the enemy, it's a culture.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Got a cite for that?

Like you accept cites from anywhere.

[GostHacked]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

Like you accept cites from anywhere.

Still asking for one regardless.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Still asking for one regardless.

It's called Google.

 

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

Too late on that account. Here to stay...and grow...and put you in your place.

"Give us a place to stand... and a place to grow. And call this land..."

Burka-tario?

[GostHacked]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

It's called Google.

 

Actually it's part of the rules here on MLW,  Show me a cite, back it up, otherwise, remove yourself from the thread.  Consider it a challenge!

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

"Give us a place to stand... and a place to grow. And call this land..."

Burka-tario?

I can't see it ever leaving...Islam's end-game is total domination of the planet.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, GostHacked said:

Actually it's part of the rules here on MLW,  Show me a cite, back it up, otherwise, remove yourself from the thread.  Consider it a challenge!

Why not cry to the mods...or look it up yourself? Do you think I'm lying? Must...eh? Defender of the Faith.

 

[GostHacked]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

Why not cry to the mods...or look it up yourself? Do you think I'm lying? Must...eh? Defender of the Faith.

 

I could look it up, but I would need to know what incident specifically you are referring to.  Care to man up there??

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

There are differences. It's not a religion that's the enemy, it's a culture.

I would suggest that in the 21st century, over much of the Islamic world, it is difficult to separate the two.  I think the culture must be affected greatly by the religion when it forms the basis for the law.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

I could look it up, but I would need to know what incident specifically you are referring to.  Care to man up there??

Go look it up...happened this week.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

I would suggest that in the 21st century, over much of the Islamic world, it is difficult to separate the two.  I think the culture must be affected greatly by the religion when it forms the basis for the law.

The two are the same.

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I would suggest that in the 21st century, over much of the Islamic world, it is difficult to separate the two.  I think the culture must be affected greatly by the religion when it forms the basis for the law.

Meh, there's probably christians over there in the ME who would cut your friggin head off. It's bigger than that. It's why the leftists hate us and love them as well.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

Meh, there's probably christians over there in the ME who would cut your friggin head off. It's bigger than that. It's why the leftists hate us and love them as well.

That does speak to the intermingling of religion and culture, though. The same Christian, or Muslim, probably wouldn't cut our heads off if they were raised in Flin Flon with only a semi religious parent to provide their guidance.

[GostHacked]

9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Go look it up...happened this week.

Can you give me any more details? Like a link?  Come on Skankhunt42 I know you can do it.

Edited December 28, 2016 by GostHacked

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, GostHacked said:

Can you give me any more details? Like a link?  Come on Skankhunt42 I know you can do it.

 

I wasn't responding to you and I'm not your servant. Go look it up: beheading Afghanistan, set your filter...

[GostHacked]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

I wasn't responding to you and I'm not your servant. Go look it up: beheading Afghanistan, set your filter...

I asked for a cite you did not deliver. Thanks for playing.  But your tune changes when you ask someone else for a cite.  But getting back on topic ....

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, GostHacked said:

I asked for a cite you did not deliver. Thanks for playing.  But your tune changes when you ask someone else for a cite.  But getting back on topic ....

That's right...back on topic. You're free to believe I made it up to smear Islam.

[OftenWrong]

8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

That does speak to the intermingling of religion and culture, though. The same Christian, or Muslim, probably wouldn't cut our heads off if they were raised in Flin Flon with only a semi religious parent to provide their guidance.

No guarantee he won't. The same culture which hates the west for our freedoms is appearing here on this shore as well. In some cases even born and bred in our society, if they are raised to believe certain falsehoods about equality and fairness, and sharing. Damn those who seek to share, by FORCE...

[GostHacked]

5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

That's right...back on topic. You're free to believe I made it up to smear Islam.

Nah you don't need to make up stuff to smear Islam. You do it quite well without it, and without a cite to back up your claim.

Why are you so resistant to it? Can't be because of me, right?

[dialamah]

25 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I would suggest that in the 21st century, over much of the Islamic world, it is difficult to separate the two.  I think the culture must be affected greatly by the religion when it forms the basis for the law.

I think its the other way around, or at least mutual.   Examples are Christmas and Easter, both pagan but appropriated by Christianity.  The practice of stoning was.mentioned in the bible and pre-dates Jesus.  FGM was also practiced 1000 years before Islam existed, and the Niqab is believed to have originally been used by Jews prior to being adopted by Muslims.

Its certainly unfortunate that Islam seems to have adopted some of the worst 'religious' traditions practiced throughout history.   And the conviction held by religious groups that God's approval requires clinging to tradition makes it difficult to make progress on eliminating these horrible practices.

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by dialamah
Clarity

[carepov]

38 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You realise this an utterly ridiculous argument, don't you?  If one of your loved ones was beaten to death with a teaspoon the fact that it was the least common cause of death in the world this year wouldn't change things for you.

Silly argument.

Edit>  Also, speaking for myself, you understand, one is not afraid of Islamic terrorism.  One is just disgusted by it.

You are right, every preventable death is tragic.  But, in your example, I would not expect the world to start focusing on teaspoon violence.

We have limited ressources, why should we spend a disproportionate amount on Islamic terrorism compared to traffic accidents, gun violence.

The silliness is in those that over-inflate the significance of Islamic terrorism,

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I think its the other way around, or at least mutual.   Examples are Christmas and Easter, both pagan but appropriated by Christianity.  The practice of stoning was.mentioned in the bible and pre-dates Jesus.  FGM was also practiced 1000 years before Islam existed, and the Niqab is believed to have originally been used by Jews prior to being adopted by Muslims.

Its certainly unfortunate that Islam seems to have adopted some of the worst 'religious' traditions practiced throughout history.   And the conviction held by religious groups that God's approval requires clinging to tradition makes it difficult to make progress on some of these horrible practices.

 

Islam appropriated everything by conquest...the sword.

 

[GostHacked]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

Islam appropriated everything by conquest...the sword.

 

Much was appropriated via war. It's not exclusive to Islam no matter how much you want to paint it that way.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Too many people will argue "But it's her CHOICE to wear it". As if a woman participating in her own oppression makes it less oppressive. 

The "choice" appears to be: Wear it because you're a filthy woman who must cover her dirty whore body at all times, or be beaten and/or killed. Sort of like when you're mugged and given the "choice" your money or your life.

I also feel there is something desperately wrong with a religion or culture that finds 5 and 6 year old girls so incredibly sexy that they must cover up too.

I of course agree with you, I would go out on a limb and think most Westerners do too and cert ain Muslims-how many Muslims I can not say but clearly I would guess Ismaili Muslims or progressive Muslims or Amidyyah Muslims and certainly probably most of the Muslims from the former Yugoslavia and Albania who all reject the extremist fundamentalist interpretation of Islam that believes in the above.

Certain Muslim practices such as the above are a point of concern and contention. They aren't compatible with Canadian values. At least we would hope not, most of us and when I say us does anyone know just how many Muslim Canadians embrace the full face covering or specific garments be worn? Do we know? Does anyone know?  When you see ultra-Orthodox Jews or Amish people or Nuns in traditional attire, do you, me, conclude from that, that all Jews or Christians are extremist and suspect?.

That said do not  many Muslims say, hang on don't hate me for that tradition some Muslims follow- I don't...and its not a religious thing its a cultural thing?

Muslims will tell you those  who choose that kind of  lifestyle appearance make a cultural choice because nowehere in the Koran does it say cover up.....so the debate goes on within the Muslim world as well. Do all Muslims think that way or do in fact progressive Muslim battle with it seeking to challenge and reform Islamic societies and cultures? Does anyone really know the numbers of each?

How would I as a supposed rational person try encourage a discourse, a conversation that would enable those concerned with extreme Islam to see your concern is real, founded, shared, but that  stereotypeing all Muslims with negative stereotypes might  in fact encourage Muslims to entrench and cling to these old values?

That's all I ask and say to your point because I have made clear I reject traditional Islam as I do my own religion's traditional interpretation of women. I don't think it has a place in the modern world whatever that means.However  I didn't stop being a Jew because I reject Orthodox Judaism precepts on women or many other things. I didn't stop being a Jew. I reformed my beliefs or changed them to adapt to a new environment as have Hindus, Christians, etc.  

People who hate me for being a Jew don't care  I am a progressive Jew as Taxme or some of the anti Israelis on this forum., I think they  could care less other than that they have a negative image of what they think a Jew is or should be just as others do with Muslims, Christians, etc..

How many times have you seen someone who says they are Christian ridiculed for certain beliefs. Try being  Catholic today without the comments about child molestation, the corrupt Church, etc. Is that fair?

All religions to be fair have a bad image today because of  certainidiots who follow them.

So I support your comments. I just would not want to use them as justification to alienate Muslim women who I would want to support and encourage to become dependent on their own individual selves to define their identity and specifically their female identities and not rely on some man to tell them.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Rue