Because it's 2016

DogOnPorch · September 21, 2016

It seems that the mostly bullshit some of you are reading needs some balance.

Yes, this is your argument. Islam is mostly non-violent and one would have to be either unlucky, Jewish or homosexual to run afoul with its more violent elements.

It's that tiny numbers argument again...some casualties are to be expected in Canada re: Islam. A small price to pay for the diversity.

?Impact · September 21, 2016

You're free to point out where you think I'm being a liar.

Your propensity to make linkages that are convenient to your narrative. Now suddenly I am a supporter of the Muslim Brothers, because that supports your narrative. I don't support Muslim Brotherhood, I don't support the International Union for Muslim Scholars, I don't support this Ottawa mosque, I don't support Islam, I don't support religion. I am being very clear, yet you will ignore it and make up anything.

Yes, this is your argument. Islam is mostly non-violent and one would have to be either unlucky, Jewish or homosexual to run afoul with its more violent elements.

It's that tiny numbers argument again...some casualties are to be expected in Canada re: Islam. A small price to pay for the diversity.

Perhaps you can illustrate your argument with a bowl of skittles.

PIK · September 21, 2016

Islam = trouble for non Islam countries. Period.

DogOnPorch · September 21, 2016

You do support the Muslim Brotherhood by trying to deny this mosque is connected to said terrorist group.

?Impact · September 21, 2016

You do support the Muslim Brotherhood by trying to deny this mosque is connected to said terrorist group.

Where did I make any denial? You are making the allegation, so demonstrate the proof. If you have (real) proof then I will accept it.

DogOnPorch · September 21, 2016

Islam = trouble for non Islam countries. Period.

I tend to agree. Islam was created as a big F-You to the Jews and Pagans of the Saudi Peninsula. Not to be for anything. In fact, while many religions place mercy as the highest morality, Islam focuses on revenge.

Where did I make any denial? You are making the allegation, so demonstrate the proof. If you have (real) proof then I will accept it.

Please, you're embarrassing yourself.

?Impact · September 21, 2016

Please, you're embarrassing yourself.

Gotta go, my skittles are getting cold.

Argus · September 21, 2016

I notice the absence of a certain country that starts with the letter C.

Canada is not a Muslim country. On the other hand, most of the adult Muslims in Canada came from the countries PEW surveyed.

Smallc · September 21, 2016

Canada is not a Muslim country. On the other hand, most of the adult Muslims in Canada came from the countries PEW surveyed.

Neither is the US.

Actual proof is needed. Your side has none.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Smallc

Argus · September 21, 2016

Neither is the US.

Actual proof is needed. Your side has none.

None that you would accept. But there is no possibility of that ever happening. No mountain of evidence will ever convince you or other progressives that your beloved Islam is guilty of anything but peace and love.

msj · September 21, 2016

No mountain of evidence will ever convince you or other progressives that your beloved Islam is guilty of anything but peace and love.

Just stop.

This is yet another sweeping generalization that is plainly stupid and wrong.

I will not speak for smallc but I know that I have no love for Islam (nor Christianity nor Judaism)

It is, as Sam Harris has stated, the mother lode of bad ideas.

However, in a country that allows freedom, including freedom of religion, this means that people can believe in that crap all they want.

As long as no other laws are being broken then not much to be done here.

So, what do you have against freedom? [Yeah, sounds stupid too, doesn't it?]

Smallc · September 21, 2016

None that you would accept. But there is no possibility of that ever happening. No mountain of evidence will ever convince you or other progressives that your beloved Islam is guilty of anything but peace and love.

You don't have any evidence that Canadian Muslims feel that way - zero.

Smallc · September 21, 2016

Just stop.

This is yet another sweeping generalization that is plainly stupid and wrong.

I will not speak for smallc but I know that I have no love for Islam (nor Christianity nor Judaism)

It is, as Sam Harris has stated, the mother lode of bad ideas.

However, in a country that allows freedom, including freedom of religion, this means that people can believe in that crap all they want.

As long as no other laws are being broken then not much to be done here.

So, what do you have against freedom? [Yeah, sounds stupid too, doesn't it?]

Not only am I an atheist, but an anti-theist. As Islam is the most violent and backwards religion based on the actions of some of its followers - I'm against it more than others.

They're all nonsense though. They're all misogynistic, judgmental, and violent to the core.

Argus · September 21, 2016

You don't have any evidence that Canadian Muslims feel that way - zero.

As I've already pointed out, they came from the same countries who do feel that way. Do you think they all magically abandoned their cultural values the moment they set foot in Canada?

Not only am I an atheist, but an anti-theist. As Islam is the most violent and backwards religion based on the actions of some of its followers - I'm against it more than others.

They're all nonsense though. They're all misogynistic, judgmental, and violent to the core.

And how much time and effort do you spend defending Christianity vs the immense amount of time and effort you put into defending Islam?

Edited September 21, 2016 by Argus

Argus · September 21, 2016

This is yet another sweeping generalization that is plainly stupid and wrong.

I dunno. Look at any topic on Islam, any subject, and you'll find progressives like you desperately defending it from any and all accusations.

Smallc · September 21, 2016

As I've already pointed out, they came from the same countries who do feel that way. Do you think they all magically abandoned their cultural values the moment they set foot in Canada?

Immediately? Of course not. Of course, we don't actually know from which survey pool the immigrants and refugees came (despite your column 'evidence'). There's also the reality that Canadian society will have a natural moderating influence and it always had had. It's the most successful country when it comes to immigration.

And how much time and effort do you spend defending Christianity vs the immense amount of time and effort you put into defending Islam?

I'm not defending Islam - I'm defending Muslims from your sweeping generalizations, and refuting utter falsehoods about Islam.

I dunno. Look at any topic on Islam, any subject, and you'll find progressives like you desperately defending it from any and all accusations.

From false and baseless accusations.

msj · September 21, 2016

Not only am I an atheist, but an anti-theist. As Islam is the most violent and backwards religion based on the actions of some of its followers - I'm against it more than others.

They're all nonsense though. They're all misogynistic, judgmental, and violent to the core.

Given history, and the presence of fundamentalists among all three Abrahamic branches, I do not see all that much difference.

Yes, I know currently it is the Muslims/Islamists who are killing innocents rather than the rabid Christians of days past.

But history shows us that anything inspired by the Bible (and the Koran certainly is) is going to be misogynistic and hateful and lead to some warped people based on some pretty bad ideas.

But people have a right to bad ideas. They don't have a right to bad behaviour hence things like criminal law.

Smallc · September 21, 2016

That's the thing. I respect the Constitutional protections of this country, no matter how I may feel.

msj · September 21, 2016

I dunno. Look at any topic on Islam, any subject, and you'll find progressives like you desperately defending it from any and all accusations.

I have not defended Islam.

I have defended people's right to believe in bad ideas as long as they are not breaking other laws.

This is why we have a secular state - we have public policy based on things like evidence and science and for the purpose to keep peoples religious ideas out as to not lead to some kind of religious pissing match of "my religion can lead to stupider laws than your religion."

DogOnPorch · September 22, 2016

I dunno. Look at any topic on Islam, any subject, and you'll find progressives like you desperately defending it from any and all accusations.

As I pointed out, progressives have a lot at stake re: experimenting with large scale Islam in Canada.

Europe has failed re: Islam. But no matter. That was their fault. Plus they deserve it.

The message in Canada is: Islam is peaceful as a doctrine and does not cause terrorism, homophobia, antisemitism, etc. Islam HAS TO BE peaceful and problem-free otherwise progressives are being played for fools. And progressives aren't fools...of course. So therefore...etc. The logic is waterproof.

Any problem with Islam has to originate with us critics. It just HAS to...otherwise...you know...fools 'n all.

kimmy · September 22, 2016

That's the thing. I respect the Constitutional protections of this country, no matter how I may feel.

As I keep pointing out, while people have the right to their religion, the Prime Minister also had the right to not go to that particular mosque.

As I keep asking, why didn't he choose a different mosque?

-k

Smallc · September 22, 2016

As I keep pointing out, while people have the right to their religion, the Prime Minister also had the right to not go to that particular mosque.

As I keep asking, why didn't he choose a different mosque?

I don't understand why you keep asking that. As far as mosques go, it's very progressive. That's why it's the go to mosque for politicians, from the Mayor to Chretien.

GostHacked · September 22, 2016

There is a picture here of women and men sitting together at a Muslim gathering, but not really together. They're on the same floor but sitting separately.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/gender-segregation-the-truth-about-muslim-women-forced-to-sit-aw/

Gender segregation : Orthodox Jews.

Good thing they don't represent all of Judaism and Jews. But I am just some anti-semite, so don't take my word for it.

As I keep pointing out, while people have the right to their religion, the Prime Minister also had the right to not go to that particular mosque.

As I keep asking, why didn't he choose a different mosque?

-k

Not sure how much choice he really has. Most likely it was his staff that set it all up.

kimmy · September 22, 2016

Given history, and the presence of fundamentalists among all three Abrahamic branches, I do not see all that much difference.

Yes, I know currently it is the Muslims/Islamists who are killing innocents rather than the rabid Christians of days past.

But history shows us that anything inspired by the Bible (and the Koran certainly is) is going to be misogynistic and hateful and lead to some warped people based on some pretty bad ideas.

But people have a right to bad ideas. They don't have a right to bad behaviour hence things like criminal law.

Certainly all of the "Big 3" have shady histories and have deeply rooted misogyny in their scripture. And presently Islam lags behind in adapting to a more modern world.

But not all Muslims are stuck in the past. Asra Nomani, the Muslim feminist I quoted earlier, said that only about half of mosques actually practice gender segregation. Wouldn't it have been great if our Prime Minister had attended one of these more progressive mosques?

Wouldn't that have been a great response to those who claim that Muslims are fundamentally incompatible with western values of equality?

Wouldn't that have been a great way to showcase Muslims embracing Canadian values?

-k

GostHacked · September 22, 2016

Canada is full of Muslim Brotherhood groups and mosques since we don't mark them as terrorists. Even though many countries do.

Denial is all you have. The IUMS is a Muslim Brotherhood front.

Vancouver and much of western Canada is infiltrated by Chinese spies living as 'Canadians'. More concerned with foreign spies than Muslims. However some spies could in fact be Muslims.

Hide under your bed.