Your thoughts on official unilingualism?

[Smallc]

Some want Ottawa to be bilingual and only 2% can not speak English. We don't need it ,except small parts of the country. And when does Quebec become bilingual??

Citation that only 2% of Canadians can't speak English.

[Benz]

I think Canada should ban english just for one year. Just to show some stubborn ones that they are not the center of the universe. North America is the place in the world where you can find the highest amount of unilinguals. It's not something to be proud of.

[Machjo]

I think Canada should ban english just for one year. Just to show some stubborn ones that they are not the center of the universe. North America is the place in the world where you can find the highest amount of unilinguals. It's not something to be proud of.

What a silly idea. Just revise the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms so that English is no longer obligatory in French Canada and French everywhere else.

Not complicated, really.

And as for the 2.4 billin a year, that's Federal and Provincial combined, does not include second-language learning nor translating federal laws since those apply Canada-wide. It was limited to services that apply exclusive to minority English or minority French in any specific province.

Again, it did not include second-language instruction in school, but the actual provision of services. It also subtracted the cost of the service itself so as to isolate the extra cost of providing it in an official-minority language of the province.

Quebec pays into that too. You pay taxes in Quebec. Are you okay with this kind of fiscal waste?

[cybercoma]

What a silly idea. Just revise the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms so that English is no longer obligatory in French Canada and French everywhere else.

Except for all the francophones in "English" Canada and all the anglophones in "French" Canada, who have a right to access their government in the language they and their ancestors have spoken for generations in this country.

[Machjo]

Except for all the francophones in "English" Canada and all the anglophones in "French" Canada, who have a right to access their government in the language they and their ancestors have spoken for generations in this country.

Okay. Imagine the following:

Pete speaks Algonquin and French.

Mark speaks French and English.

They both live in Quebec.

They are equally qualified on all non-language fronts.

If they apply to work for the provincial government in most departments, they have equal access to employment. If they apply to work for the Federal government, Mark clearly enjoys the advantage.

Now, Nick speaks only English and Jim speaks only Inuktitut with a smattering of English and no French. Are you going to tell Jim that he should thank his lucky stars that he gets to choose between English and French when communicating with the government?

Now John speaks English and French and lives in BC. Matt speaks English and ASL and lives in the same city. Both are equally qualified otherwise. Who should the government hire to make the government as accessible to the least fortunate citizens as possible? And who will it hire to promote official bilingualism?

I think you get the point. French in English Canada holds everyone else back. English in French Canada likewise holds everyone else back. Is that fair?

[Machjo]

Another way of looking at it. We should not reward lazy English speakers in Quebec and lazy French speakers in the ROC. Insread, the government should hire more people who speak a sign langage or the local indigenous language, etc. Canada should remove itself from its colonial past and stop acting like a little Europe in North America.

[?Impact]

French in English Canada holds everyone else back. English in French Canada likewise holds everyone else back. Is that fair?

What exactly is French Canada and English Canada? There are places in Manitoba and New Brunswick that would qualify as French Canada, just like there are places in Quebec that would qualify as English Canada. Places with a long history, dating far before confederation.

[Machjo]

What exactly is French Canada and English Canada? There are places in Manitoba and New Brunswick that would qualify as French Canada, just like there are places in Quebec that would qualify as English Canada. Places with a long history, dating far before confederation.

I would prefer making it a municipal as opposed to provincial division myself. But should Quebec reject that, then maybe make it provincial in Quebec and municipal in the rest of Canada.

But the principle is that with only one official language of local municipal, provincial, and federal government administration, anyone who wants to access emloyment needs learn only one offiical language, not two. If he doesn't speak an official language, that means only two not three languages.

[taxme]

What do you do about the public service in Ottawa? If you want to work in Ottawa at the headquarters of virtually every government department you almost always need to be bilingual.

Of course, Ottawa borders Quebec, and of course the public service is then dominated by people with french names because people from Quebec make up the overwhelming majority of people who are fluently bilingual. You could have a brilliant PhD who grew up in Winnipeg who only knows English and he wouldn't be qualified for an entry-level in the gov.

I know several people who grew up in Ottawa and aren't bilingual only anglo so they can't get a job. The large majority of the country can't even work for their own government.

Blame it on those lazy apathetic naive anglophones in the rest of Canada who have allowed this situation to continue on. The Anglophones in this country are just too tolerant and too politically correct to dare utter a word against bilingualism and the billions blown on that program and agenda for decades now which has pretty much only created jobs for and by the francos of Quebec. Anglophones need not apply. The Anglophones being the majority in Canada, for now I shall note, are treated as second class minority citizens when it comes to getting jobs in the government of Ottawa because they cannot speak french. I don't believe that this was suppose to be the plan but obviously maybe it was.

A book written many decades ago had the title "Bilingual Today, French Tomorrow". How true that book has come to realization today and it's predictions that the aim of bilingualism as told in that book was that papa Trudeau and his cohorts were planning on turning Canada into a french speaking country. Hey, it certainly looks like that is what has been happening in Canada these days. The francos have rights in the rest of Canada to post french language signs in french only, but Anglophones in Quebec do not have that same right. Bilingualism is a big farce, and that big farce has been played on the foolish Anglophones for decades, and who continue to remain silent on the shafting that the french do to them every day. Sad.

[Machjo]

Blame it on those lazy apathetic naive anglophones in the rest of Canada who have allowed this situation to continue on. The Anglophones in this country are just too tolerant and too politically correct to dare utter a word against bilingualism and the billions blown on that program and agenda for decades now which has pretty much only created jobs for and by the francos of Quebec. Anglophones need not apply. The Anglophones being the majority in Canada, for now I shall note, are treated as second class minority citizens when it comes to getting jobs in the government of Ottawa because they cannot speak french. I don't believe that this was suppose to be the plan but obviously maybe it was.

A book written many decades ago had the title "Bilingual Today, French Tomorrow". How true that book has come to realization today and it's predictions that the aim of bilingualism as told in that book was that papa Trudeau and his cohorts were planning on turning Canada into a french speaking country. Hey, it certainly looks like that is what has been happening in Canada these days. The francos have rights in the rest of Canada to post french language signs in french only, but Anglophones in Quebec do not have that same right. Bilingualism is a big farce, and that big farce has been played on the foolish Anglophones for decades, and who continue to remain silent on the shafting that the french do to them every day. Sad.

I'm French Canadian and oppose official bilingualism, so don't blame me. Point the finger at the right culprit: stupid anglos who believe that supporting official bilingualism will somehow appease Quebec.

On the contrary, Quebec is just as irate against official bilingualism as Anglos are.

Ironically enough, many French Canadians tolerate official bilingualism thinking that Anglos all support it. One big misunderstanding on all sides. Once each side realises that the other is just as sick and tired of offiical bilingualism as it is, the whole thing will collapse.

What I don't get is how both sides can so hate official bilingualism yet tolerate it on the mistaken belief that the other side supports it?!

[PIK]

Great post Machjo.

[Machjo]

You'll notice how when Franco-Ontarians tried to drag Couillard (a Federalist might I add) into the debate on making the City of Ottawa officially bilingual, he skirted the matter to the discontent of Franco-Ontarians.

Worse yet, when French-speaking Yukoners were pushing for more French education rights beyond what the Constitution guaranteed them through the courts, even the province of Quebec presented a statement at the hearing opposing that, mainly fearing that it could create a precedent for Anglos in Quebec. Oh, did I mention that French-speaking Yukoners weren't too happy about Quebec's intervention?

Strangely enough, many French Canadians outside of Quebec still count on Quebec's support and react surprised when Quebec opposes them. It's time for them to wake up and realise that Quebec does not support official bilingualism any more than English-Canadian provinces do, and maybe even less so.

[?Impact]

It's time for them to wake up and realise that Quebec does not support official bilingualism any more than English-Canadian provinces do, and maybe even less so.

Yes, it is time the majority realize that protecting the minority in the country/province/city doesn't help them so they can tell the minority to GTH. The majority has spoken, and they will trample the minority. Time that the French in Quebec trample the English in Quebec. Time that the English in Canada trample the French. Time that the Chinese trample us all.

[Benz]

The Anglophones being the majority in Canada, for now I shall note, are treated as second class minority citizens when it comes to getting jobs in the government of Ottawa because they cannot speak french. I don't believe that this was suppose to be the plan but obviously maybe it was.

According to what you are saying, the english canadians are an inferior race incapable to do something that the rest of the world can do, which is, speaking more than one language. Among all the people in the world that is already speaking several languages, you would be the only humans that can't do such thing. What you should do, you should start a study to confirm that the brain of the english canadian is so weak that you cannot under any circumstances learn a language from which the english language took 60% of its words. Then, and only then, you will be able to prove that bilinguism is ruining all chances for an english canadian to get the job at the federal government. A scientific approach will have a concrete weight in the balance. It will be delightful to read and challenge.

A book written many decades ago had the title "Bilingual Today, French Tomorrow". How true that book has come to realization today and it's predictions that the aim of bilingualism as told in that book was that papa Trudeau and his cohorts were planning on turning Canada into a french speaking country. Hey, it certainly looks like that is what has been happening in Canada these days. The francos have rights in the rest of Canada to post french language signs in french only, but Anglophones in Quebec do not have that same right. Bilingualism is a big farce, and that big farce has been played on the foolish Anglophones for decades, and who continue to remain silent on the shafting that the french do to them every day. Sad.

Nothing stop the provinces to force the french people outside Québec to follow a rule forcing them to have bilingual signs. There is no need for it because almost no body does it and they are so very few that it has no impact. Yet, you claim that is turning the whole country as a french speaking country. lolllllllllllll ok dude, if you are living in a french country, explain me this in french then. Explain me in french how you are persecuted by the french. Because... as you said it... it's now a french country, right?

The anglos are also silent about the cultural genocide that occurred for over a century where the french were not allowed go to french public schools with the disaster effect that so many people are english speaking only although their grand parents are french. I have seen that so often. PEI, NS, MB, ON and so on. In some area, the french has to use the supreme court to send their kids to the schools. Cry me a river mister taxme. You are humiliating yourself by whining like this.

If few french signs outside Québec is making you feel in a french country, how do you feel when you go in BC? Canada town in China?

[Benz]

Ironically enough, many French Canadians tolerate official bilingualism thinking that Anglos all support it. One big misunderstanding on all sides. Once each side realises that the other is just as sick and tired of offiical bilingualism as it is, the whole thing will collapse.

What I don't get is how both sides can so hate official bilingualism yet tolerate it on the mistaken belief that the other side supports it?!

When I see two dogs barking very loud at people passing by, I do not blame the entire dogs in the city.

Yes , the people who complain, are complaining alot and often. They are loud. But when you really open your eyes, you see on the contrary that the majority of people are rather happy with this status. Alot of english speaking people in NB are forcing their government to have a better french immersion program. Recently I saw in the news that in Vancouver, many english speaking parents are subscribes their kids in french schools and they think it is important.

The majority of anglophones in Canada are not against bilinguism, on the contrary, they embrace it when they can. It's important to mention "when they can". Unfortunately, it happens often that the classes are either unavailable or poor quality. But that majority is never heard. Only the whining anti-french are making the front page. My personal experience with the people I have met anywhere in Canada is that the bilinguism is rather something they are proud of, even when they were unilingual. You think that because you were born french that makes you more credible at bashing bilinguism? Well I am a sovereignist and I do not buy that crap regarding the anglophones in Canada. No, they are not bashing bilinguism. Yes there are some people doing it and they are very loud, still they are not the majority. It might look like that from the Québec standing point because they are the only ones we hear from, but when we look closely, we see that they do not represent the majority. Most of Canadians respect the bilinguism because it is a sign of respect for each others. It's an asset, not a problem.

Even the scientists are not backing up bilinguism stating the brain improvement and benefits coming with it.

[Machjo]

Yes, it is time the majority realize that protecting the minority in the country/province/city doesn't help them so they can tell the minority to GTH. The majority has spoken, and they will trample the minority. Time that the French in Quebec trample the English in Quebec. Time that the English in Canada trample the French. Time that the Chinese trample us all.

Trample?

I still support the freedom of a business to operate in French in Ontario if it wants to. I don't support the government administration duplicating its services in French.

I disagree with the French language laws in Quebec as they appply to business. Too draconian. However, I don't see how imposing bilingualism on federal institutions and Federally-regulated industries in Quebec help.

In fact, if the federal government stopped imposing English on Quebec, the government of Quebec might then be somewhat more lenient towards English in the private sector.

[Machjo]

According to what you are saying, the english canadians are an inferior race incapable to do something that the rest of the world can do, which is, speaking more than one language. Among all the people in the world that is already speaking several languages, you would be the only humans that can't do such thing. What you should do, you should start a study to confirm that the brain of the english canadian is so weak that you cannot under any circumstances learn a language from which the english language took 60% of its words. Then, and only then, you will be able to prove that bilinguism is ruining all chances for an english canadian to get the job at the federal government. A scientific approach will have a concrete weight in the balance. It will be delightful to read and challenge.

Nothing stop the provinces to force the french people outside Québec to follow a rule forcing them to have bilingual signs. There is no need for it because almost no body does it and they are so very few that it has no impact. Yet, you claim that is turning the whole country as a french speaking country. lolllllllllllll ok dude, if you are living in a french country, explain me this in french then. Explain me in french how you are persecuted by the french. Because... as you said it... it's now a french country, right?

The anglos are also silent about the cultural genocide that occurred for over a century where the french were not allowed go to french public schools with the disaster effect that so many people are english speaking only although their grand parents are french. I have seen that so often. PEI, NS, MB, ON and so on. In some area, the french has to use the supreme court to send their kids to the schools. Cry me a river mister taxme. You are humiliating yourself by whining like this.

If few french signs outside Québec is making you feel in a french country, how do you feel when you go in BC? Canada town in China?

There is one big difference between English Canada and Quebec. Many 'English' Canadians speak English as a second language, especially in Toronto and Vancouver. So for many non-French Canadians, French is already a third language. Those who support official bilingualism are usually monolingual English speakers who want to learn French as their second language. Indigenous Canadians must often learn three languages.

[Machjo]

I think one big mistake among many Quebecers is they presume English Canada to be monolingual when in fact it is very bilingual, but with English serving as a common second language for many.

[BC_chick]

Except for all the francophones in "English" Canada and all the anglophones in "French" Canada, who have a right to access their government in the language they and their ancestors have spoken for generations in this country.

Presumably the majority of the Anglos living in Quebec have a functioning level of French and the majority of the Francos living in ROC have a functioning level of English.

[taxme]

I'm French Canadian and oppose official bilingualism, so don't blame me. Point the finger at the right culprit: stupid anglos who believe that supporting official bilingualism will somehow appease Quebec.

On the contrary, Quebec is just as irate against official bilingualism as Anglos are.

Ironically enough, many French Canadians tolerate official bilingualism thinking that Anglos all support it. One big misunderstanding on all sides. Once each side realises that the other is just as sick and tired of offiical bilingualism as it is, the whole thing will collapse.

What I don't get is how both sides can so hate official bilingualism yet tolerate it on the mistaken belief that the other side supports it?!

Believe me when I say that if we wait for the Anglophones to work on getting rid of official biIingualism we will be waiting forever. The Anglophones appear to be only interested in themselves and their own concerns or making money or creating more bike lanes. We need the francos to do the job. The government will listen to the francos rather than they would listen to those apathetic Anglophones who show that they don't seem to care what happens to them. The feds know that they can pull the wool over their anglophone eyes, and get away with it without a whimper from them.

Well, for some reason, the feds seem to support it, and have proven so by the billions of tax dollars that have been blown on official bilingualism. Someone is making a lot of money from this farce called bilingualism. And it sure isn't the taxpayer's. Some bureaucrats for sure are though.

[taxme]

I think one big mistake among many Quebecers is they presume English Canada to be monolingual when in fact it is very bilingual, but with English serving as a common second language for many.

The way our present immigration policy is working these days English may become the second or third language in Canada in the next several decades to come. Try walking around in some of the Lower Mainland Vancouver malls and see and listen for yourself. English is hardly heard.

[taxme]

According to what you are saying, the english canadians are an inferior race incapable to do something that the rest of the world can do, which is, speaking more than one language. Among all the people in the world that is already speaking several languages, you would be the only humans that can't do such thing. What you should do, you should start a study to confirm that the brain of the english canadian is so weak that you cannot under any circumstances learn a language from which the english language took 60% of its words. Then, and only then, you will be able to prove that bilinguism is ruining all chances for an english canadian to get the job at the federal government. A scientific approach will have a concrete weight in the balance. It will be delightful to read and challenge.

Nothing stop the provinces to force the french people outside Québec to follow a rule forcing them to have bilingual signs. There is no need for it because almost no body does it and they are so very few that it has no impact. Yet, you claim that is turning the whole country as a french speaking country. lolllllllllllll ok dude, if you are living in a french country, explain me this in french then. Explain me in french how you are persecuted by the french. Because... as you said it... it's now a french country, right?

The anglos are also silent about the cultural genocide that occurred for over a century where the french were not allowed go to french public schools with the disaster effect that so many people are english speaking only although their grand parents are french. I have seen that so often. PEI, NS, MB, ON and so on. In some area, the french has to use the supreme court to send their kids to the schools. Cry me a river mister taxme. You are humiliating yourself by whining like this.

If few french signs outside Québec is making you feel in a french country, how do you feel when you go in BC? Canada town in China?

The English Canadians are a bunch of gullible fools that have been led down the garden path and have been told that they must now accept the fact that they will soon become a minority in Canada. The Anglophones have become so politically correct and spoon fed so much multiculturalism that they are too scared to question or challenge anything that has to do with bilingualism or multiculturalism, two programs and agendas that have been in place for so long that the Anglophones don't even believe or see their end is near in Canada because of those two isms. And it will come eventually when the Anglophones become a small tiny minority in Canada. At least the french in Quebec have the bal-s to stand up and speak out, and will defend their french language and culture where has with the Anglophones they just sit back and watch their language and culture get crapped on. I personally have more respect for the francos than I do for my own Anglo kind. If the french language and culture is going down, the francos won't let it happen without a fight. The Anglophones will just shrug their shoulders and will say, aw well, what can I do. Pathetic.

PS: As far as I know right now, francos outside Quebec can post a sign in french only, and no language police will tell them to take the sign down. But in Quebec, Anglophones cannot post an English only sign and if they do the language police in Quebec will force them to take it down. And I know this because I was born and raised in Montreal. And don't try to tell me that the francos don't own Ottawa. They are in the majority of federal government employees. And when in the majority you get to make the rules. They allow Quebec to remain unilingual while pretty much try to force the rest of Canada to become bilingual. New Brunswick walked into that one, and now Ontario and Manitoba are doing the same thing. All going bilingual except for the province that lies in between them all. As I have already said, the Anglophones are playing into the franco games and they are going to lose.

[cybercoma]

Presumably the majority of the Anglos living in Quebec have a functioning level of French and the majority of the Francos living in ROC have a functioning level of English.

You have a situation that requires contact with the government and you ant to work in your second language? No way.

[Benz]

There is one big difference between English Canada and Quebec. Many 'English' Canadians speak English as a second language, especially in Toronto and Vancouver. So for many non-French Canadians, French is already a third language. Those who support official bilingualism are usually monolingual English speakers who want to learn French as their second language. Indigenous Canadians must often learn three languages.

So what?

[Benz]

The English Canadians are a bunch of gullible fools that have been led down the garden path and have been told that they must now accept the fact that they will soon become a minority in Canada. The Anglophones have become so politically correct and spoon fed so much multiculturalism that they are too scared to question or challenge anything that has to do with bilingualism or multiculturalism, two programs and agendas that have been in place for so long that the Anglophones don't even believe or see their end is near in Canada because of those two isms. And it will come eventually when the Anglophones become a small tiny minority in Canada. At least the french in Quebec have the bal-s to stand up and speak out, and will defend their french language and culture where has with the Anglophones they just sit back and watch their language and culture get crapped on. I personally have more respect for the francos than I do for my own Anglo kind. If the french language and culture is going down, the francos won't let it happen without a fight. The Anglophones will just shrug their shoulders and will say, aw well, what can I do. Pathetic.

PS: As far as I know right now, francos outside Quebec can post a sign in french only, and no language police will tell them to take the sign down. But in Quebec, Anglophones cannot post an English only sign and if they do the language police in Quebec will force them to take it down. And I know this because I was born and raised in Montreal. And don't try to tell me that the francos don't own Ottawa. They are in the majority of federal government employees. And when in the majority you get to make the rules. They allow Quebec to remain unilingual while pretty much try to force the rest of Canada to become bilingual. New Brunswick walked into that one, and now Ontario and Manitoba are doing the same thing. All going bilingual except for the province that lies in between them all. As I have already said, the Anglophones are playing into the franco games and they are going to lose.

hmmm, I may surpise you but this time, I agree for a portion of what you are saying. I also believe that multiculturalism is slowly destroying your culture and I understand your concern. I am in favor of pluriculturalism (also called interculturalism) and I am very against multiculturalism. I see a major différence in those two approaches.

I think you are confused regarding the bilinguism. It has nothing to do with the multiculturalism. They are two different topics. Bilinguism is essential to keep both nations (English canada and Québec) along in the same country/federation. My language is french, if Canada is my country, I expect the federal to serve me in my language wherever I live in this country. Otherwise, Canada is no longer my country. Plain and simple. Therefore, if you think bilinguism should be shut down, you should also invite Québec to leave with no harm feeling. It was fun, we tried, let's move on to something else. But it has nothing to do with multiculturalism.

You come from Montréal and you are not aware why those laws exist? You may not know Montréal as much as you think then. Why don't ask the English canadian jew Mitch Garber regarding the language rules? Those rules are not offensives, they are protectives. I think BC and Ontario should have the same rules as well. Even if the English language is not as threatened as the French language is now, it might be a matter of time before it gets there. You are right to blame the multiculturalism for that.

You are talking about NB. NB has one third of its population speaking french. If there is one province that has to be bilingual, that's the one. Yet, you think they are doing a mistake. What is going in your mind? How do see things? Who are the Acadians for you? Second class citizens? How come you are afraid that the canadians become like acadians, and at the same time, you have no regards for them. Why are you avoid the cultural genocide done against the french in PEI, NS and Manitoba? You are complaining about a bilingual Ontario, but Ontario has the second highest number of french outside Québec. Not in percentage, in number. Unilingual french Québec? Are you aware that all English people in Québec are capable to receive English services from the provincial government? The anglo-Quebecers do not have to use the supreme court to subscribe their kids to school.

What are the french for you? Are they just your possession? The birtish won the war few centuries ago, therefore, you can dispose them as you wish? Do the anglos and the francos are sharing this country or it belongs only to the anglos? The anglos are the majority, therefore, the french must shut up and follow their will? How does that work for you? It's funny because at the very same time, you are starting to fear the grip of your culture on this country sliping away with the arrival of those new canadians. The multiculturalism allows them to be anything but canadians. Do you remember why P.E. Trudeau wanted the multiculturalism? The real reason? Do you know why he totally avoided the recommandation of a biculturalism from the Laurentdeau-Dunton commission? Have you ever heard of it? There are missing holes in your understanding of the situation regarding the two solitudes French/English.