Your thoughts on official unilingualism?

[cybercoma]

I was a Franco in the ROC until about a year ago and probably will be again in a year's time. So would you mind pointing out my problem to me?

And what about allophones in Quebec and the ROC?

Do you speak for all francophones in the ROC?

[cybercoma]

And what about the Deaf? No official sign language either.

Deaf people have a legal right to interpreters when interacting with the government, health care institutions, education system, and legal system no matter where they are in Canada. The government is literally required to provide them.

[Machjo]

Do you speak for all francophones in the ROC?

No. I am in fact often at odds with them since I find them about as selfish as the anglos in Quebec since official bilingualism imposes not one but two languages on allophones whi wish to access federal employment for example.

Plus allophones pay the sane taxes but get nothing in return.

I'm an allophone too by the way.

Deaf people have a legal right to interpreters when interacting with the government, health care institutions, education system, and legal system no matter where they are in Canada. The government is literally required to provide them.

Can they sue Air Canada for a 7-Up in ASL on an international flight?

[Machjo]

Well it would be interesting to know all 3 figures. But i can't find any stats whatsoever

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/as-sa/98-314-x/98-314-x2011001-eng.cfm

[Machjo]

English-French bilingualism

Between 2006 and 2011, the number of persons who reported being able to conduct a conversation in both of Canada's official languages increased by nearly 350,000 to 5.8 million. The bilingualism rate of the Canadian population edged up from 17.4% in 2006 to 17.5% in 2011.

This growth of English-French bilingualism in Canada was mainly due to the increased number of Quebecers who reported being able to conduct a conversation in English and French.

[Machjo]

In Quebec, the English-French bilingualism rate increased from 40.6% in 2006 to 42.6% in 2011. In the other provinces, bilingualism declined slightly. The largest decreases were recorded in Ontario, Manitoba and British Columbia, where in each case, the bilingualism rate decreased by half a percentage point.Footnote 23

[PIK]

Is mandarin not the second language in this country now??

[Machjo]

Is mandarin not the second language in this country now??

Nope.

I think Punjabi is third, but concentrated in key areas.

Mind you, Chinese is definitely giving even English a run for its money in key locations like Richmond BC.

[?Impact]

official bilingualism imposes not one but two languages on allophones whi wish to access federal employment for example.

Plus allophones pay the sane taxes but get nothing in return.

Not sure what an 'allophone' is, but you answered your own question. Those that speak both official language get better employment opportunities.

[cybercoma]

Someone whose first language is neither English (anglophone) nor French (francophone).

[Benz]

The official bilinguism takes all its meaning in the unofficial yet incontestable fact that this country has been founded by two nations. The federal being allergic to the word nation, would rather use the term culture. To insure peaceful and mutual respect between those two "cultures", it was decided to make both languages offical and give the right to citizen of both cultures the right to be served and have education in their respective language.

Attacking this principle can only lead to the split of unity between french and english and make the whole federal system collapse.

Although there is an exra cost to have both languages rather than only one, it is very small and overrated by those against that policy. If you need consolation, just take a look at the current EU with its more than 20 different languages.

There are absolutly no substential gain of what-so-ever to break that policy.

[Icebound]

The official bilinguism takes all its meaning in the unofficial yet incontestable fact that this country has been founded by two nations. The federal being allergic to the word nation, would rather use the term culture. To insure peaceful and mutual respect between those two "cultures", it was decided to make both languages offical and give the right to citizen of both cultures the right to be served and have education in their respective language.

Attacking this principle can only lead to the split of unity between french and english and make the whole federal system collapse.

Although there is an exra cost to have both languages rather than only one, it is very small and overrated by those against that policy. If you need consolation, just take a look at the current EU with its more than 20 different languages.

There are absolutly no substential gain of what-so-ever to break that policy.

What IS this?

A glimmer of sanity in a sea of BS... +1

[Benz]

The challenge was not very difficult to raise.

[Machjo]

The official bilinguism takes all its meaning in the unofficial yet incontestable fact that this country has been founded by two nations. The federal being allergic to the word nation, would rather use the term culture. To insure peaceful and mutual respect between those two "cultures", it was decided to make both languages offical and give the right to citizen of both cultures the right to be served and have education in their respective language.

Attacking this principle can only lead to the split of unity between french and english and make the whole federal system collapse.

Although there is an exra cost to have both languages rather than only one, it is very small and overrated by those against that policy. If you need consolation, just take a look at the current EU with its more than 20 different languages.

There are absolutly no substential gain of what-so-ever to break that policy.

Do official bilingualism is good because it's not as bad as 20 official languages?

Most French Canadians in the RIC know English, so why waste money on French services in the ROC except in French-plurality municipalities?

And most English-Quebecers know French too, so why waste money on English except in English-plurality municipalities?

It just makes no sense?

[Benz]

Do official bilingualism is good because it's not as bad as 20 official languages?

Most French Canadians in the RIC know English, so why waste money on French services in the ROC except in French-plurality municipalities?

And most English-Quebecers know French too, so why waste money on English except in English-plurality municipalities?

It just makes no sense?

You have a very narrow schema of thought regarding the language policy because you claim that translation is expensive. Yet, you never even tried to expose how much expensive it is. In the balance, the expense for bilingual signs and texts is minimal compared to the benefits.

In some countries, there are over than 20 different languages and the main official one is none of them. It would be english or french depending which one has conquered them in the past. They are in a situation where none of them are in majority and they want to use a popular neutral language for internal use. So depending on the region of the country, two languages will be used. The local one and an European one like english or french.

In Canada, both english and french are the most used. Both are used by two nations trying to get along with each others, despite some politicians and medias with a pathological tendency to entertain hatred. If the language of Québec was not used anywhere else in the world, I would say ok. It is pointless to provide bilingual services in the rest of the country.

Not only you won't save as much as you can, you will increase the feeling that english and french do not belong together. Are you independentist?

Edited September 15, 2016 by Benz

[Machjo]

You have a very narrow schema of thought regarding the language policy because you claim that translation is expensive. Yet, you never even tried to expose how much expensive it is. In the balance, the expense for bilingual signs and texts is minimal compared to the benefits.

In some countries, there are over than 20 different languages and the main official one is none of them. It would be english or french depending which one has conquered them in the past. They are in a situation where none of them are in majority and they want to use a popular neutral language for internal use. So depending on the region of the country, two languages will be used. The local one and an European one like english or french.

In Canada, both english and french are the most used. Both are used by two nations trying to get along with each others, despite some politicians and medias with a pathological tendency to entertain hatred. If the language of Québec was not used anywhere else in the world, I would say ok. It is pointless to provide bilingual services in the rest of the country.

Not only you won't save as much as you can, you will increase the feeling that english and french do not belong together. Are you independentist?

I'm not necessarily an indépendentiste, but I'm not against it either if it saves money and promotes efficiency. I am a decentralist though.

According to studies, official bilingualism costs 2.4 billion yearly.

[PIK]

English all the way.

[Smallc]

English all the way.

To hell with those French speaking populations in 4 province.

[The_Squid]

To hell with those French speaking populations in 4 province.

To hell with a good education system!

Physiological studies have found that speaking two or more languages is a great asset to the cognitive process. The brains of bilingual people operate differently than single language speakers, and these differences offer several mental benefits.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationopinion/10126883/Why-learn-a-foreign-language-Benefits-of-bilingualism.html

Conservative French-haters would cut off their nose to spite their face!

[Smallc]

I really wish I hadn't went to school on the southern fringes of Northern Manitoba, and could have at least had French classes.

[Benz]

I'm not necessarily an indépendentiste, but I'm not against it either if it saves money and promotes efficiency. I am a decentralist though.

According to studies, official bilingualism costs 2.4 billion yearly.

Who says they are official. You? You must be a VID, very important dude. Based on my experience, let me tell you in advance what I anticipate to be the flaw with your study. They summed up ALL possible translations, including those who are very necessary or just out of question to avoid. The problem with that mindset is, once the translation job is done, it can be used at large as well. The cereal box with english/french version printed on it, whether they are allowed to use only one language in some places, the translation is already done and the production set is already setup for this format. It would be more costly to have another. The translation used by the federal government in area where there are almost even number of french and english speaking people, is the very same Canada wide. Who are you going to blame for that? New Brunswick? The minimum translation is necessary anyway and the extended exposure of bilingual services is not that much expensive. Very low cost to make Canadians feel home anywhere in Canada.

Go challenge your official studies with that, dude!

[Benz]

I really wish I hadn't went to school on the southern fringes of Northern Manitoba, and could have at least had French classes.

French classes would have give you a small basis of the language but, it would have not been enough to make you a bilingual. Same here in Québec regarding english. I learned alot more by myself after high school than during the 8 years I had english courses. If you really want to learn it minimally, you can do it by by yourself. You might not become bilingual but, you will know enough to understand a little.

I took a class of spannish a long time ago, just the first level. Afterward I tried to learn more by myself. At some point I was able to conjugate a dozen of verbs in the present tense and I knew few words as well. Although it was definitely not enough to have a normal conversation, it was enough to make myself understood for simple requests. So wherever I went in Latin america, the people always liked me and were very pleased to serve/help/chat with me. Understanding their accent was sometimes a torture but, I did not mind because I was just in vacation, not concluding a business deal. I know it was easier to appreciate their culture this way rather than just a plain translation in english or french.

You could be surprise how people appreciate you when you really try to get to know a little about them, even if it is almost nothing. That's very human and it is applicable on everyone. Or almost everyone.

In 2002 I went to Costa Rica alone and I did a rafting day with a group of visitors. 5 boats, 4 guys per boats. They matched me with 3 German friends in the same boat. Those guys barely speak english and they looked like they don't give a damn about me. Actually they were not looking at me at all. I asked them if they can give me a paddle and their facial expressions was saying "you are annoying us". Then I said danke schon (thank you), which is the only one word I know in German other than Guten Tag (Hi). Out of sudden, I became their best friend for the rest of the ride. They were constantly talking to me and asking me to translate what the guide was saying. The poor guide had a terrible english accent, to a point that I was sometimes asking him to repeat in spannish just in case I could understand better. It looked insulted though. lol . We had alot of fun that day and everybody were friendly with me. They were all talking to me in english, except that french couple, but they were not exchanging between each others. There were 4 cultures in the group (english, french, spannish and german) and there was no interactions between each others. Some spannish and french persons were able to understand english but they were not tempted to speak it with the english people. They did with me though.

So I came to the conclusion that when you do the minimum to show someone from another culture that you are interested despite you know too little, it will break a psychological barrier and the people become very open to you. Or maybe it is just me, I am a super nice friendly dude. lolll

So if you ever attempt to learn french and communicate with french people, do not worry about being judged regarding you french skill level. It is rather the opposite. There are more chances that you are going to constantly ask them to switch back in french because you want to learn it.

It is very sad that the french speaking people in Manitoba are now only 4%. There was a great number of french in that province when the Thornton Bill banned french from public schools for a century. It's a cultural genocide. Having two languages is a great personal asset, not a threat. Even scientists are now demonstrating that the bring gains important improvement when you are bilingual.

[Smallc]

It wasn't about becoming bilingual. Getting introduced to a language at an early age gives you an advantage if you choose to pursue learning it later in life.

[taxme]

I just got challenged on a French Québec forum and need your help.

I proposed that instead of a sovereignty referendum, Québec should have a referendum on official unilingualism in the Constitution and federal administration.

For example, it could propose that the English provisions of the Constitution and federal government administration, packaging and labelling, etc. would not apply to Québec.

I'd pointed out that one advantage would be money saved for the taxpayer. Another would be that Federal employment in Quebec could be more accessible to those who don't know English and so make it more accessible to indigenous and allophone Quebecers too.

Another would be that Québec would no longer be obligated to provide English language education. It would probably still do that but could limit it more to where numbers warrant it for example without any Constitutional obligation to do so.

Another would be that Quebecers could import products from other countries with or without English labelling and so expand consumer choice.

One forum member said he liked the idea but that English Canada would never agree to it.

I explained that English Canadians are just as tired of having French imposed on them as Quebecers are of having English imposed on them.

I'd given the example of an entrepreneur in BC who'd run into the problem of importing US products with no French labelling. He eventually had to quit importing it because it wasn't worth the expense of French translation in BC.

He was still unconvinced, believing that English Canadians would gladly impose French on themselves if that is what it took to impose English on Quebec.

He seems to believe English Canadians are that massochistic. I disagree.

So, who's right? Would you agree to drop English in Quebec and French in the ROC?

I'll post this thread in the other forum too.

Let Quebec separate, and save the rest of Canada billions of their tax dollars from being wasted on a useless and dying language. Quebec does not want to have anything to do with the rest of English Canada. The francos declaring themselves a unilingual french speaking province tells us that. It has cost the rest of English Canada tens of billions of tax dollars to become bilingual, and what has bilingualism done for Canada? Sweet nothing. The Anglophone provinces went bilingual to please and keep Quebec in Canada, and then the french give the rest of Canada the finger, and they go unilingual french. Gee thanks, Quebec. Quebec is just a burden the rest of Canada cannot afford. They need to get lost now. Works for me.

[PIK]

Some want Ottawa to be bilingual and only 2% can not speak English. We don't need it ,except small parts of the country. And when does Quebec become bilingual??