Your thoughts on official unilingualism?

[Machjo]

I want to know how many french-speakers in Canada can speak french but not english.

You mean in Québec, the ROC, or total? I don't remember exact figures, but in Quebec it's majority. In the ROC it's almost non-existent except in Labrador and South Eastern Ontario. Total, a small majority due to Quebec's figure. So yes, a majority don't know English Canada-wide, but they're all concentrated in key areas.

[Moonlight Graham]

What do you do about the public service in Ottawa? If you want to work in Ottawa at the headquarters of virtually every government department you almost always need to be bilingual.

Of course, Ottawa borders Quebec, and of course the public service is then dominated by people with french names because people from Quebec make up the overwhelming majority of people who are fluently bilingual. You could have a brilliant PhD who grew up in Winnipeg who only knows English and he wouldn't be qualified for an entry-level in the gov.

I know several people who grew up in Ottawa and aren't bilingual only anglo so they can't get a job. The large majority of the country can't even work for their own government.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Moonlight Graham

[-TSS-]

I want to know how many french-speakers in Canada can speak french but not english.

I would imagine that quite a few in the rural Quebec.

[Machjo]

What do you do about the public service in Ottawa? If you want to work in Ottawa at the headquarters of virtually every government department you almost always need to be bilingual.

Of course, Ottawa borders Quebec, and of course the public service is then dominated by people with french names because people from Quebec make up the overwhelming majority of people who are fluently bilingual. You could have a brilliant PhD who grew up in Winnipeg who only knows English and he wouldn't be qualified for an entry-level in the gov.

I know several people who grew up in Ottawa and aren't bilingual only anglo so they can't get a job in their own government in their own city.

I guess only the highest state-level would need to be bilingual since provincial level Federal positions would all be unilingual.

[Moonlight Graham]

You mean in Québec, the ROC, or total? I don't remember exact figures, but in Quebec it's majority. In the ROC it's almost non-existent except in Labrador and South Eastern Ontario. Total, a small majority due to Quebec's figure. So yes, a majority don't know English Canada-wide, but they're all concentrated in key areas.

Well it would be interesting to know all 3 figures. But i can't find any stats whatsoever

[Machjo]

I would imagine that quite a few in the rural Quebec.

Not only rural. Even many off-island Montreal suburbs are unilingual French.

[Vega]

I want to know how many french-speakers in Canada can speak french but not english.

I'm sure they can speak English, but it's the quality of English that is the question for me.

[Machjo]

I'm sure they can speak English, but it's the quality of English that is the question for me.

I used to live in Charlevoix.

They knew English as well as the average British Columbia speaks French.

I also used to live on the Island of Montreal. It was a bilingual oasis. Whenever I ventured off-island, it was predominantly unilingual English in some places or unilingual French in most places.

I'd never lived in Québec City, but when I'visited, the vast majority there don't know English except the tourist shops in the old city all seem to be manned by bilinguals, but that's about it.

Where I live now is mostly bilingual, but I could reach Ontario within 1 hour on foot from where I live!

Edited August 20, 2016 by Machjo

[eyeball]

The suggestion is to remove the right of individuals to get service in their own language. No that is not banning but it is disenfranchising a huge population.

Apparently there's a lot of that going given the majority of Canadians are disqualified from employment with the federal government because they're unilingual.

There's nothing saying Quebec's government could'nt still offer services in English simply for efficiencies sake, or is there?

The native English population of Montreal is larger than the native English population in all other Canadian cities with the exception of Toronto & Calgary. Rights are great if they are yours, but if the right is for anyone else then suddenly it is irrelevant.

I suppose, but are you suggesting French Quebecers want the right to deny English Quebecers the use of English services when dealing with the government?

[Machjo]

Damn, the guy in the French forum is still not convinced, thinking this forum is maybe exceptional. Maybe another province would need to call such a referendum first to show Quebecers that English Canadians would really go for it.

If he's that convinced that English Canadians are really that much in favour of official bilingualism, no wonder he's a sivereignist! I imagine that his perceptions have probably been influenced by Anglo-Quebeckers and presumed that the English in the ROC are the same.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Machjo

[-TSS-]

French is a global language as well. Think about Ireland where students have to learn Irish, or Garlic whatever the real name of the language, which is practically a dead language.

[Machjo]

French is a global language as well. Think about Ireland where students have to learn Irish, or Garlic whatever the real name of the language, which is practically a dead language.

Agreed. That's part of the problem. In the French forum we were discussing how many French, Swiss, Belgian, and French African products are inaccessible to the Québec market due to the bilingual packaging requirents of the Packaging and Labeling Act. Translation is expensive, which makes it pointless unless you are sure you will recoup the cost.bIf in doubt, you drop it.

In that sense, official bilingualism holds French back from its full potential in world markets. It essentially limits us to bilingual Anglo-French markets. While English and French are each major world markets, Anglo-French is quite small in comparison.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Machjo

[Bryan]

Maybe the answer is to remove any language requirements at all. Let the locals speak what they want. Let local govts conduct business is whatever language is appropriate for them. Don't require any specific language on any packaging (let the importer put a sticker on it so his customers know what it is).

[Bryan]

I want to know how many french-speakers in Canada can speak french but not english.

I wonder that as well. I spent a few months in rural Quebec, and never met a single person whose english was not substantially better than my french. I've lived almost all of my life in St. Boniface, and the only people that I've encountered who didn't speak english were recent immigrants from Africa.

[Machjo]

Maybe the answer is to remove any language requirements at all. Let the locals speak what they want. Let local govts conduct business is whatever language is appropriate for them. Don't require any specific language on any packaging (let the importer put a sticker on it so his customers know what it is).

Many put stickers on it already. Just go to Chinatown. But that's even more expensive than to include it in the packaging originally.

One possibility I could see is to allow the local indigenous language, Esperanto, and the official language of the municipality to fulfil the requirement federally unless a provincial law restricts it further. Bill 101 would require French in Quebec of course. Allowing the local indigenous language would be more symbolic, but even that can go far in showing good will.

Some SME exporters in China use Esperanto to trade with other non-English countries. At least five such businesses that I know of. This could allow them for example to package in Chinese and Esperanto if they don't have an English translator available just to fulfil the Canadian legal requirement to sel l to Richmond or China toens across Canada, especially food products others will probably not but anyway.

If a province doesn't like that, it passes it's own Bill 101 requiring English.

[Bryan]

See I thought this was a serious thread. Then you brought up esperanto. Come on man.

[Machjo]

See I thought this was a serious thread. Then you brought up esperanto. Come on man.

Then just English and French then.

[?Impact]

I want to know how many french-speakers in Canada can speak french but not english.

Outside of the greater Montreal area, there is a significant number of unilingual French speaking people in Quebec. About 42% of the province is English/French bilingual. Leaving for English unilingual or other, I would guess just over 4 million are French unilingual.

[Machjo]

See I thought this was a serious thread. Then you brought up esperanto. Come on man.

And here's what I don't get. That you hate Esperanto so much that you would defend official bilingualism for no other reason than that a person who promotes official unilingualism happens to also recognise a value in Esperanto. No logic in that at all.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Machjo

[Machjo]

Outside of the greater Montreal area, there is a significant number of unilingual French speaking people in Quebec. About 42% of the province is English/French bilingual. Leaving for English unilingual or other, I would guess just over 4 million are French unilingual.

That 42% can 'hold a conversation' in both language according to Stats Can. No reflection of biliteracy for example. And holding a conversation? What? Haggling at the marjet? Idle chit chat with friends and family? All of that is low-level in business, academia, job market, understanding news articles, etc.

[Machjo]

There is a poll and a debate on the subject here:

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/canadian-politics/145709-your-thoughts-official-unilingualism.html

There is even a Quebec sivereignist participating in it.

He's still not convinced that Anglos in the ROC support official unilingualism, thinking too few people voted in the poll.

Ironic that he supports official bilingualism but would hesitate to push it politically since he believes the ROC opposes it.

I keep saying the ROC would embrace it. I need some help here.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Machjo

[cybercoma]

The problem isn't anglos in the ROC and francos in QC. The problem is anglos in QC and francos in the ROC.

[Machjo]

The problem isn't anglos in the ROC and francos in QC. The problem is anglos in QC and francos in the ROC.

I was a Franco in the ROC until about a year ago and probably will be again in a year's time. So would you mind pointing out my problem to me?

And what about allophones in Quebec and the ROC?

[Machjo]

And what about the Deaf? No official sign language either.

[Machjo]

And since I'm both, I'm also an anglo in Quebec.

I really am curious to know what problem official unilingualism would impose on me Cybercoma.