Tragedy of the Commons

[The_Squid]

Canada, and Canadians, will do just fine with whatever system is implemented. Thanks for your concern though.

[Smoke]

Canada, and Canadians, will do just fine with whatever system is implemented. Thanks for your concern though.

Yeah James Hacker, please refrain from commenting on other countries and leave it to the ones who do it best....smug Canadians.

[The_Squid]

Yeah James Hacker, please refrain from commenting on other countries and leave it to the ones who do it best....smug Canadians.

It's not the commenting.... It's the false information about other systems and insinuating that people won't be able to figure it out. As if fear-mongering is a useful tool for discussing the merits of a particular system.

Edited August 2, 2016 by The_Squid

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah James Hacker, please refrain from commenting on other countries and leave it to the ones who do it best....smug Canadians.

Good point....how dare other nationals comment on Canadian political process.

[jacee]

It's not the commenting.... It's the false information about other systems and insinuating that people won't be able to figure it out. As if fear-mongering is a useful tool for discussing the merits of a particular system.

Agreed.

He's too obviously schilling for someone.

.

[JamesHackerMP]

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH KAAAAAAAYYYYY.....Before I respond to the reaction to this thread, I'm going to have a Coke-on-ice hold the rum and calm down.

Now that I've calmed down a bit, I want to make a few things clear.

My intent was NEVER to "tell" Canadians what they "ought" to do. It is my firm belief that "self-determination" means precisely that: don't force your opinions or the way to run a country on other countries, whether by the barrell of a gun, or through one's opinions. The way I asked my questions and provided a few anecdotes (some of which have come from Canadian citizens I know, btw) was not intended to tell Canadians "oh, you shouldn't do this in your own country it won't work" but to find out what you were thinking, and what your desires were. My very first thread on this website was titled something like "American in search of mutual exchange of information" which is exactly what i intended (and still intend) to do.

Now, on the other hand, if I came off smug in so doing, I deeply and humbly apologize.

But you have to admit, there's a whole section on this website's forum about US politics, where Canadians are free to comment on US politics and the US system, isn't there? Seems to be a bit of a double standard that none of us are calling you smug for commenting on our elections. But I guess that's par for the course when you live in the superpower. During the 1980s, Americans would have said lots of sh*t (mostly nasty stuff) about the Russians when we should have minded our own business (like who cares who just got promoted to the Politburo, etc.) So maybe that's only fair. But that doesn't change the facts that I'm here with a different purpose than the one you seem to have assumed.

Now my reason for "advising"--and it wasn't TELLING it was really more just finding out what you were thinking--you to avoid PR in favour of FPTP; I majored in political science in college, and my area of concentration was international relations, not American Government. Why have I taken such an active interest in your country's politics? Because my own government <yawn!/le yawn!> bores the heck out of me. For some reason I don't fully understand, I find Canadian federal and provincial politics far more exciting than the morose goings-on in Washington and Annapolis.

One would think that that would produce at least a modest result of flattery, but flattery is not what I'm after, it's mutual exchange of information, because this sort of thing FASCINATES me, as I stated. In fact, why do you think my screen name is "James Hacker, M.P."? For those of you who are unaware, it refers to the main character of a BBC sitcom from the late 1970's/early 1980's about a Minister (later Prime Minister) of the UK. If I was the sort of person you seem to think I am, I would have styled myself "America, F**** Yeah!" or something of the sort. Not the name of a member of a parliament of your chief commonwealth partner. Right?

Again, my apologies if I made my point in a way that sounded egregiously America-centric or jingoistic! I will re-explain my views in this thread in the future, once I can clearly put them in a correct, inoffensive order. Fair enough?

So put your feet up, have a hot--whatever you guys drink when it gets colder than usual--and calm down a little bit, too. In my opinion, Canada is a wonderful ally to the United States, a good friend; and there's enough room in the world for both The Star-Spangled Banner AND O, Canada!

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!

Edited August 2, 2016 by JamesHackerMP

[jacee]

Chill, mon.

We'll let you know what type of PR and how we're going to implement it when it comes up for discussion, K?

I'm quite sure we can handle it.

Thanks for your friendly concern.

Ps ... We kind of avoid the whole 'God save the Queen' thing, because it's kind of divisive ... ya know?

.

Edited August 3, 2016 by jacee

[Guest]

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH KAAAAAAAYYYYY.....Before I respond to the reaction to this thread, I'm going to have a Coke-on-ice hold the rum and calm down.

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!

That's what makes the place fun.

God Save The Queen.

[JamesHackerMP]

And fun's what it's all about. And Squid, you need to calm down, too. I'm not spreading false information about other systems, nor am I insinuating you won't be able to figure it out. Put your feet up and chill as well.

[JamesHackerMP]

By the way, the name for this thread came from a book about Canadian politics, contributed to by former MPs. I'm not here trying to bash your system. I rather admire it in fact.

[eyeball]

Our system sucks baby barf.

You can have it. Please don't bring it back.

[Smallc]

Our system sucks baby barf.

You can have it. Please don't bring it back.

Because things have turned out so poorly.

[JamesHackerMP]

Both of our systems I would surmise could use a "tweak" here and there, then, you think?

[jacee]

Both of our systems I would surmise could use a "tweak" here and there, then, you think?

Ya. Tweak Trump.

[eyeball]

Because things have turned out so poorly.

Because they were managed so poorly.

[JamesHackerMP]

Tweak trump? You mean tweak his.....??????? No thank you I ain't touchin' those.

[JamesHackerMP]

I have a question though: was once the prime minister, like back in the days of John MacDonald's prime ministry, a sort of primus inter pares? (first among equals) rather than the "supreme leaders" they are sometimes today? I've heard Canadians (even on this website) talk about that.

[Smoke]

Our system sucks baby barf.

You can have it. Please don't bring it back.

Is there somewhere else in the world you would rather live?

[Smoke]

I have a question though: was once the prime minister, like back in the days of John MacDonald's prime ministry, a sort of primus inter pares? (first among equals) rather than the "supreme leaders" they are sometimes today? I've heard Canadians (even on this website) talk about that.

Various governing parties have been working towards the concentration of power in the PMO for as long as I can remember.

[eyeball]

Is there somewhere else in the world you would rather live?

No.

Various governing parties have been working towards the concentration of power in the PMO for as long as I can remember.

So you'd rather other people who also get this move away or stay and do whatever they can to change it? I can't tell if you like this feature of our governance or loath it - to me it's at the heart of why our system sucks.

[taxme]

I have been living in Canada for many years, I have not visit China for many years. If you don’t agree I am belonging to here, then you are not too, because you are not one of the aboriginal people.

Unlike the United States, China do much better than Canada in the 21st century. That’s why from many aspect, learning from China is good to Canada.

Europeans were here first before the Chinese. Therefore you should be thankful that those Europeans allowed Chinese in. Let's try and be honest here. The Indians did not do very much with North America, and probably never would. The Europeans did, and we see that all around us today. But today there are so many environmentalists that would like to send Canada back into the stone age. But not for this cowboy. I like being able to do all my hunting and fishing at Safeway. Works for me.

Indeed, China is on the move alright. Unlike Canada which appears to be not on the move at all anymore. From what I have seen on TV, the Chinese passenger railway system is way more advanced than Canada's passenger railway system is. Canada's passenger railway system today looks archaic compared to China's.

[JamesHackerMP]

Interesting. It could be the gradual lessening in the authority of the monarchy that did that. And in the search for a "national leader" power has moved one rung down the ladder: to the queen's ministers. It's fascinating how, in commonwealth countries, the word "the crown" can mean whatever you want it to mean. Everyone needs a "national leader", and now that it's not the monarch (even through her GG) anymore, I'm assuming it has to be the prime minister. Power tends to consolidate over time. That's just my observation from south of the 49th.

My country's founding fathers also saw the need for a national leader, but didn't mean for him to be as powerful as he is today. Which seems to be a popular leitmotiv in democratic politics, no?

Taxme, with all due respect, you do your fellow Canadians no great justice by being so jingoistic in regards to your country of origin. Which, I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess is the Middle Kingdom. You may have a world-class rail system, but I would take the government in Ottawa ANY day as my national government over the one in Beijing. No offense is meant by that, it's just you're getting a little over the top comparing your country of origin to your adoptive land. Most Chinese-Americans I've met (I haven't met too many Chinese-Canadians) have the good sense not to do that.

[TimG]

Indeed, China is on the move alright. Unlike Canada which appears to be not on the move at all anymore. From what I have seen on TV, the Chinese passenger railway system is way more advanced than Canada's passenger railway system is. Canada's passenger railway system today looks archaic compared to China's.

That is because passenger rail makes zero economic sense in Canada. Both the US and Canada make extensive use of rail for moving freight (over double the rate for Europe and Japan). This is because the rail system in north america is run by private operators that know how to maximize the value of their assets and passenger rail simply makes no sense.

The last thing we need in this country is more intercity passenger rail.

Edited August 5, 2016 by TimG

[JamesHackerMP]

Even though that's a different topic, TimG, I have to say that you're wrong about your opinion on intercity rail. At least in the US. In the NE corridor, it's actually quite useful. That's why, when Obama announced billions of dollars would be put into a maglev train system in the US I smacked my hand on my head in dismay. We need to update the passenger rail system as it is now, not something totally new like maglev. I've never traveled on Canada's rails, but the people who have traveled on Amtrak tell me that it gets lower priority than freight, who own the actual rails themselves.

And maybe Americans and Canadians like to drive more a la "Road Trip"?

[taxme]

That is because passenger rail makes zero economic sense in Canada. Both the US and Canada make extensive use of rail for moving freight (over double the rate for Europe and Japan). This is because the rail system in north america is run by private operators that know how to maximize the value of their assets and passenger rail simply makes no sense.

The last thing we need in this country is more intercity passenger rail.

In China and Europe a passenger railway system appears to be on the move and expanding into the 21st century. Canada should be able to do the same, if the will were there. But I guess that there are other things that our politicians can spend or blow our tax dollars on. So many to mention.