Police Officers Shot in ----------------

[eyeball]

The Injustice Institute is more like it.

This is the same organization whose internet experts helped China build it's Great Firewall. This was done with Chretien's direction and blessing but I doubt conservatives complained.

All in all I highly doubt the JI has either the moral or the ethical background for the job of training police for a democracy.

[dialamah]

I think cops have a difficult job. I think they could be better trained. Too many cops, as a result of their position of power and the stress of the job end up being too violent. I think it's good that they are kept honest through public pressure, but that also people don't take into account how difficult it can be to face the worst and saddest of humanity on a daily basis, year after year. I think that there should be less 'support the brotherhood' activity at the expense of the public and innocent victims.

[jacee]

All non RCMP municipal police forces (and Band Police) in BC train together in mixed classes at the Justice Institute in Burnaby and their recruiting methods are very similar. As well as what I stated in my post, there is psychological and physical screening done by the individual departments and again by the J.I. before they are accepted for training. References, friends and relatives of prospective candidates are also interviewed before they are accepted.

No system is perfect and in spite of all that, the odd one still gets through that shouldn't.

Are they screened for racism and other prejudices?

Indigenous people are frequently badly mistreated by police officers in Canada.

I saw an officer push a homeless Indigenous man down the stairs in one of our cities, then go after him ... then thumps and cries of pain. A young man on the street yelled at the cop, said "I'm going to call the ... police ... but you are the police! Damn! ... ... I'm making the call anyway!"

We do not pay police to beat up vulnerable people.

And we do pay police: You work for us.

Cops who cover up for the 'few bad apples' are also 'bad apples'. The 'blue wall of silence' means the whole barrel's gone rotten.

That didn't happen because of a few bad apples. It happened from the top down, covering up bad behaviour, failing to maintain proper standards.

.

Edited July 19, 2016 by jacee

[Wilber]

Are they screened for racism and other prejudices?

No doubt better than you are for yours.

[jacee]

No doubt better than you are for yours.

You'll have to clarify that ...

.

[Argus]

No doubt better than you are for yours.

In fact, the police psych evaluation screens for all kinds of things. Not sure what other kind of job or profession screens for any sort of antisocial defects.

[Argus]

We do not pay police to beat up vulnerable people.

Sure we do. Because the public doesn't want to pay enough to put them into public are. So they live out on the streets harassing people and causing trouble the police have to deal with.

Cops who cover up for the 'few bad apples' are also 'bad apples'. The 'blue wall of silence' means the whole barrel's gone rotten.

There has always been a militaristic esprit de corps among police and like agencies. There isn't any way around that unless you want to have a bunch of bureaucrats in uniform.

The problem with bureaucrats in uniform is they're not going to run towards where someone is shooting at people. They're going to run away from that.

[jacee]

Sure we do. Because the public doesn't want to pay enough to put them into public are.(??)

So they live out on the streets harassing people and causing trouble the police have to deal with.

I agree there is a lack of public housing, and treatment services.

I am not one of "the public" you refer to.

Typically, it's Conservatives who don't want to pay those costs.

I think the police should get active, protest with and for the people who need better services.

There has always been a militaristic esprit de corps among police and like agencies. There isn't any way around that ...

Oh yes there is.

Criminals belong in jail, cops or otherwise.

Covering up criminal acts by cop colleagues is also criminal.

The honour, reputation, public confidence of police forces depends on honourable behaviour.

And their safety depends on it too.

Bad cops and coverups and loss of public confidence put all officers at risk.

We expect police to follow the rules.

Otherwise ... why should we?

.

Edited July 20, 2016 by jacee

[Argus]

I agree there is a lack of public housing, and treatment services.

I am not one of "the public" you refer to.

Typically, it's Conservatives who don't want to pay those costs.

I seem to recall during conversations about building more jails the conservatives supported that and the lefties opposed it.

As to mental health facilities, that was a merger between stupid conservatives wanting to save money and stupid liberals wanting crazy people to be 'free' to live 'normal lives'.

Neither got their wish. Instead the crazies are on the streets causing all kinds of problems and costing more than if they were in asylums.

Pubic housing is only good for bringing all the scuzzy people together in one small area so police can better watch over them.

No, not all poor are scuzzy, but just about all scuzzy people are poor. It's no coincidence that public housing areas in most cities are where you find the strongholds of street gangs.

We expect police to follow the rules.

Otherwise ... why should we?

I kind of agree, especially with serious crimes, but I also understand how the 'brotherhood' works, and how it's almost a necessary part of the esprit de corps necessary in an institution made up of people willing to throw themselves at violent people. Still, I was furious at police misbehavior during the G20, and wanted the chief fired. He's now a Liberal MP. I actually donated money to the Liberal Party candidate because that scuzzy Fantino was running for the Tories, and I had despised him as head of the OPP. I have probably criticized police more than anyone on this site, but I still support police, and recognize that some things are necessary evil. I'm far from ready to label every cop who protects other cops as a criminal because I don't know what to replace them with. Kindly, gentle, sweet, sensitive cops are not who I want confronting murderous street gang members, rapists and killers.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Argus

[Wilber]

You'll have to clarify that ...

.

Nope, you've made them pretty clear.

[kimmy]

kimmy, do you want to disband the police? That's what Argus says you're arguing.

Absolutely, that's exactly what I'm saying. Clearly the only two options are unconditional support for unchecked authoritarianism or Somalia-like anarchy, and I choose the latter. Obviously any talk of meaningful reform to how police act, or police accountability, is just too far-fetched to take seriously.

Oh yeah. Let's disband the police. I'm sure your life will be safer, then. No doubt all those people who have been 'intimidated' by police and 'abused' will do their level best to ensure society runs along smoothly.

what the--

So I guess we should just send them all home and fend for ourselves.

oh for--

We must accept the police as they are, or do without their services at all?

Where did that false dichotomy come from? That's ridiculous. That's "you're either with us, or your with the terrorists." That's "If you don't support the war, you're disrespecting our troops!" That's pure dog-crap.

Like you two gentlemen, I agree that the police provide an essential service. Unlike you two, apparently, I don't accept that their methods and actions are beyond questioning. Maybe someday somebody like Recep Ergogan will become Prime Minister and then the police may have the authority to silence their critics, and wouldn't that be wonderful. Until then, they'll have to deal with annoyances like the Braidwood Inquiry and citizens recording their antics.

-k

[jacee]

I seem to recall during conversations about building more jails the conservatives supported that and the lefties opposed it.

Unh ... no ... I wasn't talking about housing or treating them in jails.

As to mental health facilities, that was a merger between stupid conservatives wanting to save money and stupid liberals wanting crazy people to be 'free' to live 'normal lives'.

Neither got their wish. Instead the crazies are on the streets causing all kinds of problems and costing more than if they were in asylums.

No I wasn't suggesting asylums either.

Pubic housing is only good for bringing all the scuzzy people together in one small area so police can better watch over them.

No, not all poor are scuzzy, but just about all scuzzy people are poor. It's no coincidence that public housing areas in most cities are where you find the strongholds of street gangs.

There are better ways of providing housing.

This isn't your forte, solving social problems, Argus.

It can be done, people who shouldn't be living on the street can be housed with proper supports. but funding is necessary.

I kind of agree, especially with serious crimes, but I also understand how the 'brotherhood' works, and how it's almost a necessary part of the esprit de corps necessary in an institution made up of people willing to throw themselves at violent people. Still, I was furious at police misbehavior during the G20, and wanted the chief fired. He's now a Liberal MP. I actually donated money to the Liberal Party candidate because that scuzzy Fantino was running for the Tories, and I had despised him as head of the OPP. I have probably criticized police more than anyone on this site, but I still support police, and recognize that some things are necessary evil. I'm far from ready to label every cop who protects other cops as a criminal because I don't know what to replace them with. Kindly, gentle, sweet, sensitive cops are not who I want confronting murderous street gang members, rapists and killers.

Cops who cover up other cops' criminal behaviour ... are criminals.

All police are at risk when the public loses trust.

http://m.therecord.com/news-story/6771029-angry-crowd-surrounds-police-at-waterloo-bar-fight

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/hamilton/hamilton-police-online-activity-1.3684456

.

Edited July 20, 2016 by jacee

[Moonlight Graham]

It aint right calling all blacks criminals, for the same reason it aint right calling all cops criminals.

Not all black people are innocent. Not all cops are innocent. Both have good and bad people within their collective groups.

I never said all cops are bad or do bad things. There's lots of good cops. But there's enough incidents where some cops aren't doing the right thing where it's not isolated but a system-wide problem that needs to be dealt with.

[Moonlight Graham]

That's crap. And showing individual instances of abuse is not going to change the facts.

I meant most incidents we've been seeing where the cops are screwing up badly involve excessive use of force. I didn't mean most police arrests in total involve excessive use of force.

[Moonlight Graham]

Cops have very tough jobs and have to deal with tons of shit. Sometimes it's clear they aren't trained properly to deal with it. Other times there's some cops who just want to act like assholes. Most cops are good cops, some cops are jerks & need to be checked.

Does that sum it up for everyone?

[Argus]

Like you two gentlemen, I agree that the police provide an essential service. Unlike you two, apparently, I don't accept that their methods and actions are beyond questioning.

Please do show us where we've suggested any such thing. I've bitched about police misbehaviour and suggested areas of training they need to focus on a lot more and a lot longer than you have. I'm just not ready to embrace cheap slogans from the anti-police types.

[Argus]

Unh ... no ... I wasn't talking about housing or treating them in jails.

No I wasn't suggesting asylums either.

Why? Because nobody is really criminal and violent except police, right?

Most of the people the police have issue with ought to be in prison or in some kind of mental health facility.

There are better ways of providing housing.

This isn't your forte, solving social problems, Argus.

OH right, and it's yours? Let me guess your solution MORE GOVERNMENT MONEY!

That has been your solution to every issue which has ever come up on this site since you've been here.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Argus

[Wilber]

Like you two gentlemen, I agree that the police provide an essential service. Unlike you two, apparently, I don't accept that their methods and actions are beyond questioning. Maybe someday somebody like Recep Ergogan will become Prime Minister and then the police may have the authority to silence their critics, and wouldn't that be wonderful. Until then, they'll have to deal with annoyances like the Braidwood Inquiry and citizens recording their antics.

-k

They aren't beyond questioning and they are questioned. In BC we have independent civilian police complaints commissioners for both municipal departments and the RCMP. Unfortunately for the cop haters, they are entitled to the same due process as every other citizen when they screw up. Do cops support each other? Damn right, their lives depend on each other and they get precious little support from anyone else when they make a mistake. Does that support between them go to far sometimes? Probably but why would anyone be surprised? They spend their lives dealing with victims and the lowlifes who make those victims. Between that, the Charter hoops they have to jump through to get any kind of charge or conviction and the glacial pace of our legal system it's no wonder many of them get cynical over time, any of us would. You don't think they know there are people with cameras all over the place ready to post everything they do on social media? Of course they do but they have to do their jobs in spite of it. How would you like someone filming everything you do at work and then posting it for every ahole in the world to comment on. Believe it or not, most cops don't like it when some cops make them look bad, particularly if it negates something that they have spent many hours working on. Believe it or not, cops do get fired for things even though no charges were laid against them.

[WestCoastRunner]

You don't think they know there are people with cameras all over the place ready to post everything they do on social media? Of course they do but they have to do their jobs in spite of it. How would you like someone filming everything you do at work and then posting it for every ahole in the world to comment on.

So would you be against cameras in the cockpit?

[Icebound]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAu44wVgb58

Sheriff Clark on CNN. Another side.

You know.... this High Profile Sherrif was a keynote speaker at the RNC, blasting BLM.... and he is right in a lot of ways.... BLM DOES over-reach, For example, their call to eliminate police presence from the Pride parade is ludicrous.

HOWEVER.... he would have a lot more credibility if he was not part of a police coverup, himself.

When one of his deputies went through a stop sign in 2013 and was involved in a car accident, he unjustly charged the other driver with drunk driving. Within 2 days, the Sherrif's office knew of video evidence that exonerated that driver but the police sat on it for nearly a year.... while the drunk driving case proceeded.... before a media investigation finally uncovered the truth.

The victim's court filing against the Sherrif and his deputies is here: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi2vNjQpYPOAhVLxoMKHbUWAfIQFghIMAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Flocaltvwiti.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F07%2Ffederal-lawsuit.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHPX2vpsHxBxB-OZ5c1lM4jXWEoig

And more information:

http://fox6now.com/2014/07/07/fox6-investigation-prompts-a-lawsuit-crash-victim-filing-federal-suit-against-sheriff-clarke-others/

http://www.adweek.com/tvspy/witi-investigation-helps-prove-false-arrest-sparks-federal-lawsuit/128172

When these are the sort of front-and-center supporters of Trump, it is small wonder that people are skeptical.

[Wilber]

So would you be against cameras in the cockpit?

Yes, there are already flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders. They can already find out what you were saying and every control input you made.

[kimmy]

Please do show us where we've suggested any such thing.

Then what exactly did you guys mean with these posts:

Oh yeah. Let's disband the police. I'm sure your life will be safer, then. No doubt all those people who have been 'intimidated' by police and 'abused' will do their level best to ensure society runs along smoothly.

...

So I guess we should just send them all home and fend for ourselves.

How am I supposed to read that, other than to mean "if you're going to criticize the police, we should take away the police and see how you like it then?"

If that's not what you were trying to say, please explain what you really meant.

I've bitched about police misbehaviour and suggested areas of training they need to focus on a lot more and a lot longer than you have. I'm just not ready to embrace cheap slogans from the anti-police types.

Cheap slogans or not, they're right.

I think BLM are a bunch of buffoons too, but there's a real problem here. As I've said before, my main objection to the BLM message is that trying to blame it on racism is just too simplistic an explanation-- it misses the real problem. The real problem: no accountability from the police has resulted in no trust from the public.

Each time one of these incidents happens, the police chief and the mayor get on a podium and say "Please! Do not rush to judgment! Trust the system!" After seeing the disgusting, despicable reality of the system exposed in the Braidwood Inquiry, how much do you trust the system, Argus?

-k

[kimmy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAu44wVgb58

Sheriff Clark on CNN. Another side.

"All the information that our critics have is wrong! Cops are awesome! Everything was awesome until Black Lives Matter started spreading hateful rhetoric! There was no problem! We don't accept any responsibility for anything! We deny any responsibility for anything, ever!"

Exactly the kind of mentality you'd expect from the police, and exactly the kind of mentality that has brought things to this point.

-k

[Wilber]

"All the information that our critics have is wrong! Cops are awesome! Everything was awesome until Black Lives Matter started spreading hateful rhetoric! There was no problem! We don't accept any responsibility for anything! We deny any responsibility for anything, ever!"

Exactly the kind of mentality you'd expect from the police, and exactly the kind of mentality that has brought things to this point.

-k

For the most part they are awesome. They are also human.

[Guest]

For the most part they are awesome. They are also human.

Agreed. The Police who don't make the news are in the vast majority. Like any other group that has members who do bad things.

Edited July 21, 2016 by bcsapper