Transgender

cybercoma · May 17, 2016

What is it that makes them need additional protections that are not already covered by the charter of rights and freedoms, and/or the current criminal code?

They are not listed in human rights code. I've already said this. Sexual orientation and gender are there, but gender identity is not. While you might want to leave it up to the human rights commission to interpret it in there, the Trudeau Government has chosen to codify it.

cybercoma · May 17, 2016

Thank you for the suggestion. I took your advice and thought about it for a minute and would still like to know how much this is going to cost schools and how they will handle it.

How exactly do you think this will create additional costs for schools? You know trangender people go to school now, right?

Edited May 17, 2016 by cybercoma

cybercoma · May 17, 2016

If, like cybercoma suggested, transgender people are being denied an education, then of course a law should protect a person (any person) from that type of discrimination. I'm just not so sure that is happening in Canada.

I'm not sure why it's so difficult for you to get your head around, but gender identity is not protected under the Charter nor the Canadian Human Rights Act (which are two different things btw). Gender is named, as is sexual orientation. Gender identity is not. It's a perfectly reasonable update to the language of these acts.

Argus · May 17, 2016

Thank you for the suggestion. I took your advice and thought about it for a minute and would still like to know how much this is going to cost schools and how they will handle it.

Aren't "basic human rights" already protected for everyone under the Charter? Freedom of speech, movement, religion, etc. etc. THOSE are basic human rights. Freedom to squat in whatever toilet you want is NOT.

Bryan · May 17, 2016

They are not listed in human rights code. I've already said this. Sexual orientation and gender are there, but gender identity is not. While you might want to leave it up to the human rights commission to interpret it in there, the Trudeau Government has chosen to codify it.

What is it that makes them need additional protections that are not already covered by the charter of rights and freedoms, and/or the current criminal code?

Argus · May 17, 2016

If, like cybercoma suggested, transgender people are being denied an education, then of course a law should protect a person (any person) from that type of discrimination. I'm just not so sure that is happening in Canada.

They're not, of course. This is just a new fad among progressives. Soon they'll find some other niche group which desperately needs their paternalistic protection.

Argus · May 17, 2016

What is it that makes them need additional protections that are not already covered by the charter of rights and freedoms, and/or the current criminal code?

Where is the legislation to protect fat people from discrimination? There are A LOT more of them and I'm quite sure they face discrimination. What about short men? What about ugly people? Talk about discrimination! Who protects them?

cybercoma · May 17, 2016

What is it that makes them need additional protections that are not already covered by the charter of rights and freedoms, and/or the current criminal code?

Gender identity is not already covered by the charter and human rights code. Unless you want to argue why we have human rights legislation at all, then fill your boots. I'm not interested in a conversation that stupid.

Edited May 17, 2016 by cybercoma

Bryan · May 17, 2016

Gender identity is not already covered by the charter and human rights code. Unless you want to argue why we have human rights legislation at all, then fill your boots. I'm not interested in a conversation that stupid.

What is it that makes them need additional protections that are not already covered by the charter of rights and freedoms, and/or the current criminal code?

Hal 9000 · May 17, 2016

Yes there is. What makes you think anyone but the person who is transgender is in any position to describe their identity other than themselves? I don't tell you what your identity is. It's like me saying to you that even though you identify as a cisgender male, I'm going to need corroborating information from at least your family doctor, parents, perhaps a psychological evaluation, and whatever else.

That's exactly my point! And, i'm pretty sure i explained it at a level that's easily understandable. Once someone says they're transgender, end of argument.

Therefore, the only way around the bathroom/change room issue is to simply allow everyone regardless of gender to use whatever space they choose. Because really, from a legal standpoint, no "man" or person could ever be charged with entering whatever change room, bath room or shower they choose.

GostHacked · May 17, 2016

It's as simple as this, it's progressive, and once you progress, you must progress further, extend the ideology further, which of course means the issues that are being fought about become more and more extreme, there is no limit to these people, there will always be another issue no matter how far left, and how liberal we already are, it will never be enough.

Alright, do we need 4 bathrooms? Male, female, men who believe they are female, and females who believe they are men.

You're worried about cost, while transgender people are worried about basic human rights. Think about that for a minute.

Maybe some are not considering all the costs involved. How much money has been put into getting this bill passed? How much more is it going to cost to maintain the infrastructure and pay for staff. Then there is the cost of businesses needing by law to accommodate for these new changes.

Sure it is about basic human rights which they already have in my view. But it seems to be the "cause du-jour" type deal. Hell, I'll even call it 'gender fads' in a sense it is hip to claim something different. It will all fade out of the limelight in a short time until our ADHD society drops this torch for something new to remain relevant in this ever changing society. They might also down the road regret their cause being accepted by having certain legislation passed. I don't know.

Also it's going to get confusing with all the different signs for all the different bathrooms. I just hope I'll be able to tell which one I am supposed to use.

cybercoma · May 18, 2016

That's exactly my point! And, i'm pretty sure i explained it at a level that's easily understandable. Once someone says they're transgender, end of argument.

Therefore, the only way around the bathroom/change room issue is to simply allow everyone regardless of gender to use whatever space they choose. Because really, from a legal standpoint, no "man" or person could ever be charged with entering whatever change room, bath room or shower they choose.

Is the bathroom in your house segregated? If it isn't, when did you stop raping women and children in it?

Edited May 18, 2016 by cybercoma

cybercoma · May 18, 2016

How much money has been put into getting this bill passed? How much more is it going to cost to maintain the infrastructure and pay for staff. Then there is the cost of businesses needing by law to accommodate for these new changes.

What infrastructure? What business costs? Did it cost businesses more when they were forced to sell to "niggers" and "faggots"? It baffles me why people are concerned with the financial cost of basic human decency and not discriminating against people.

Hal 9000 · May 18, 2016

Is the bathroom in your house segregated? If it isn't, when did you stop raping women and children in it?

Are you suggesting that I'm against shared washrooms? I think I've stated that the best way around the issue is to allow anybody access to any washroom, change room or shower. Maybe you're too preoccupied with what you think that you're not paying attention to what I'm saying.

Hal 9000 · May 18, 2016

What infrastructure? What business costs? Did it cost businesses more when they were forced to sell to "niggers" and "faggots"? It baffles me why people are concerned with the financial cost of basic human decency and not discriminating against people.

Really? Are we allowed to use this language?

Anyway, when allowing other people to use different amenities, businesses weren't forced to build something new for them.

It is funny, first we were segregated, then everyone wanted to use the same things, now people are wanting certain segregation again.

cybercoma · May 18, 2016

That was the language of the people who were forced to change, hence the quotation marks. It's ugly, just like their ideologies. Sorry if that offends you. And I still have no idea what "new infrastructure" you guys are on about.

Edited May 18, 2016 by cybercoma

Hal 9000 · May 18, 2016

That was the language of the people who were forced to change, hence the quotation marks. It's ugly, just like their ideologies. Sorry if that offends you. And I still have no idea what "new infrastructure" you guys are on about.

I'll say it one more time for the slower (not you, of course) folks, I think everyone should use whatever amenities they choose.

To hell with the women, religious folk, the children or anyone who doesn't want to mix genders in the shower, just let the junk all swing out.

Big Guy · May 18, 2016

How exactly do you think this will create additional costs for schools? You know trangender people go to school now, right?

Yes, I know some transgender people go to school now. But I do not know how many - do you? Are there 3, 30, 300 or 3,000? I do know that when any organization has to adapt to change then it costs them money. How much will depend on how many changes have to be made? You know making changes to infrastructure, supervision and implementation of new process costs money, right?

I do not know "exactly do you think this will create additional costs for schools". That is what I said when I stated that I wonder (hello!)

what the additional costs may be.

BTW. Check under your saddle - there may be a burr there.

-1=e^ipi · May 18, 2016

We have two genders, just like 99.9999% of the other species on this planet.

Gender isn't sex. And there are more than 2 genders and more than 2 sexes.

Agree, but how much would you like to bet that there are transgendered people, who are female, who wouldn't want to use the same bathroom as cisgendered men?

And there are also KKKers that don't want to use the same bathroom as black people.

If people don't like equality, they can go live in Saudi Arabia.

-1=e^ipi · May 18, 2016

Just because you refuse to listen and are therefore ignorant to the issues and discrimination faced by transgender people

This is rich coming from the guy that refuses to accept my sexual orientation (asexual) and gender identity (agender).

-1=e^ipi · May 18, 2016

Where is the legislation to protect fat people from discrimination?

That's coming next. Haven't you heard of fat shaming?

-1=e^ipi · May 18, 2016

Are you suggesting that I'm against shared washrooms? I think I've stated that the best way around the issue is to allow anybody access to any washroom, change room or shower. Maybe you're too preoccupied with what you think that you're not paying attention to what I'm saying.

Exactly.

Equality for all!

Down with segregated bathrooms!

cybercoma · May 18, 2016

I'll say it one more time for the slower (not you, of course) folks, I think everyone should use whatever amenities they choose.

To hell with the women, religious folk, the children or anyone who doesn't want to mix genders in the shower, just let the junk all swing out.

You take a lot of public showers at local restaurants and shopping centres, do you?

cybercoma · May 18, 2016

Yes, I know some transgender people go to school now. But I do not know how many - do you? Are there 3, 30, 300 or 3,000? I do know that when any organization has to adapt to change then it costs them money. How much will depend on how many changes have to be made? You know making changes to infrastructure, supervision and implementation of new process costs money, right?

I do not know "exactly do you think this will create additional costs for schools". That is what I said when I stated that I wonder (hello!)

what the additional costs may be.

BTW. Check under your saddle - there may be a burr there.

What changes? What costs? No one has made any bit of sense when it comes to this cost argument. I've not seen one reasonable explanation of what kind of additional costs would be incurred. What changes to infrastructure? What supervision and implementation of this "new process"? The Human Rights Tribunal already exists. The Human Rights Act already exists. We're talking about a simple amendment to existing legislation to include something that would very likely be interpreted into the legislation under gender already.