Transgender

[jacee]

See? You're not getting it. Your response shows that.

Sorry Jacee....you're on your own. Figure it out.

Maybe that's what you need (not relying on anyone to help you).....take the time to read and analyze what's been said.

No pain, no gain.

I have no obligation to lead you by the hand every step of the way. This is a board for grown-ups.

You said:

" No one is attacking the LGBT - it's all in your head."

So you're not attacking LGBT right to exist anymore?

You certainly did before, biblical references and all.

Have you changed your stance on that?

.

[Hal 9000]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/13/transgender-woman-arrested-voyeurism-target-changi/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

So, Target is now up to 4 or 5 cases of voyeuristic "women" taking pictures of young girls.

[betsy]

The progressives are creating a major problem.

Outraged folks will tend to protect their women - especially when the law can't. This will not be good for the LGBT.

I don't know why they won't just create two more washrooms/fitting rooms for transgendered males, and transgendered females.

Edited July 24, 2016 by betsy

[msj]

The progressives are creating a major problem.

Outraged folks will tend to protect their women - especially when the law can't. This will not be good for the LGBT.

Maybe a wiser move would be to distinguish harmful behaviour, pedophilia, from unharmful behaviour, being transgendered, and reacting appropriately to each rather than tar with such a wide brush.

[betsy]

Maybe a wiser move would be to distinguish harmful behaviour, pedophilia, from unharmful behaviour, being transgendered, and reacting appropriately to each rather than tar with such a wide brush.

EH? How do you say that's wiser?

How do you distinguish that in a washroom? In a department store?

Do you ask each and every LGBT: are you a pedophile? Sex offender?

Any pedophile or would-be sex offender....please raise your hand?

Edited July 24, 2016 by betsy

[kimmy]

How do you distinguish that in a washroom? In a department store?

Do you ask each and every LGBT: are you a pedophile? Sex offender?

Do you ask that of every non-LGBT person?

-k

[betsy]

Do you ask that of every non-LGBT person?

-k

No. Of course not. Non-LGBT, are not LGBT....are they?

That's my point with msj. He's talking about distinguishing who the pedophiles are - like as if they've got the mark on their foreheads! How can he distinguish? Read what I responded to.

How do you know a man in the women's restroom isn't really an LGBT in the process of transforming?

That he's a sex predator pretending to be an LGBT? Can you tell?

Edited July 24, 2016 by betsy

[dialamah]

No. Of course not. Non-LGBT, are not LGBT....are they?

That's my point with msj. He's talking about distinguishing who the pedophiles are - like as if they've got the mark on their foreheads! How can he distinguish? Read what I responded to.

How do you know a man in the women's restroom isn't really an LGBT in the process of transforming?

That he's a sex predator pretending to be an LGBT? Can you tell?

How do you know a man in a man's washroom isn't a homosexual pedophile pretending to pee? How do you know a woman in a woman's washroom, isn't hunting for her boyfriend's next female victim and not just being friendly while fixing her makeup?

Learning to distinguish between *behavior* and *people* is important, after all. Otherwise, you are blaming a whole bunch of people for the actions of a few, and limit yourself from being able to identify who the true criminals are. Plus, it's lazy thinking.

[msj]

EH? How do you say that's wiser?

How do you distinguish that in a washroom? In a department store?

Do you ask each and every LGBT: are you a pedophile? Sex offender?

Any pedophile or would-be sex offender....please raise your hand?

You can not distinguish based on their behaviour?

Which usually means after the fact.

Hence the word "reacting."

You can try to profile pedophiles all you like and that's fine.

I suggest you start with men first.

Then white, pasty white, second.

Edited July 24, 2016 by msj

[msj]

And if you want to be proactive then you teach children sex education from a young age so that they know if uncle is touching them somewhere inappropriate then they actually know this to be the case and that uncle needs some reacting to.

[betsy]

How do you know a man in a man's washroom isn't a homosexual pedophile pretending to pee? How do you know a woman in a woman's washroom, isn't hunting for her boyfriend's next female victim and not just being friendly while fixing her makeup?

We don't. The same way we can't tell a woman in a woman's washroom isn't another Karla Homolka.

However, there is a concern with transgendered going through the process of transforming! They are neither fully females, or males yet - therefore, they ought to have their own washrooms. This isn't like the examples you've given above.

Learning to distinguish between *behavior* and *people* is important, after all.

No....you're not making any sense!

When do you distinguish the behaviour? That's the point, isn't it?

You can't tell until the predator has made his move!

Otherwise, you are blaming a whole bunch of people for the actions of a few, and limit yourself from being able to identify who the true criminals are. Plus, it's lazy thinking.

You're the one who's thinking lazily. Exert a bit of effort. Use common sense.

No one is blaming the LGBT at all, for the actions of predators!

Predators will try to exploit the situation. That's what people are concerned about! Get a grip!

Besides, don't tell me that a sensible female who's alone in the washroom with another person who looks like a man in disguise doesn't feel insecure being alone with him. Why should females be subjected to that unease, just so to be politically correct?

Edited July 24, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

You can not distinguish based on their behaviour?

Well....I don't know if we're on the same page, msj.

Usually, when you've distinguished a predator based on his behaviour, that usually means you're already being assaulted.

Which usually means after the fact.

Oh boy.......you're lucky if you've survived an assault, and you're not kidnapped.......or dead!

Hence the word "reacting."

Ha-ha-ha

Maybe a lot of women "react" like you that's why we see so many sex assault victims!

What happens to vigilance?

You can try to profile pedophiles all you like and that's fine.

I suggest you start with men first.

Then white, pasty white, second.

We're not talking just pedophiles here. We're talking sex offenders of all kinds!

How do you differentiate a man disguised as a woman from a man in the process of transgendering?

Edited July 24, 2016 by betsy

[msj]

Well....I don't know if we're on the same page, msj.

Usually, when you've distinguished a predator based on his behaviour, that usually means you're already being assaulted.

Oh boy.......you're lucky if you've survived an assault, and you're not kidnapped.......or dead!

What happens to vigilance?

We're not talking just pedophiles here. We're talking sex offenders of all kinds!

How do you differentiate a man disguised as a woman from a man in the process of transgendering?

Well of course.

We dont live in a "Minority Report" kind of world so we sort of have to react to behaviour.

It is not a crime to dress as the other gender.

Given the preponderance of priests praying (pun) on children I would think that dressing in a frock (or whatever those priest gowns are called) would also be a way to profile child molesters but perhaps I'm wrong there.

Edited July 25, 2016 by msj

[jacee]

We're not talking just pedophiles here. We're talking sex offenders of all kinds!

How do you differentiate a man disguised as a woman from a man in the process of transgendering?

You don't.

I'm not familiar with any cases where pedophiles or other sex offenders have disguised themselves as the opposite gender in order to commit offences.

That fear of disguise seems to play a great role in your thoughts on Transgender rights (though it's unrelated really) so can you provide some examples of such cases ?

Here's a tip to help with your fears: If you see a mannish face with a mustache and a hairy chin, dressed as a woman, with support hose, a kerchief and a shopping cart ... it's a woman:

A Transgender woman would never go out looking like that.

And what's with all the laughter about sexual assault? ?

.

Edited July 25, 2016 by jacee

[betsy]

And what's with all the laughter about sexual assault?

.

You didn't get it?

VIGILANCE is one major prevention to become just another sex assault victim!

Msj lectures about distinguishing the perv through his behaviour! DUH!

In other words, you'll know if you're alone in the washroom with a perv....when you're already being attacked!

Edited July 25, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

Well of course.

We dont live in a "Minority Report" kind of world so we sort of have to react to behaviour.

It is not a crime to dress as the other gender.

The transgender issue can easily be fixed. Preventive measures can be taken. Parents, and women, are concerned about the POSSIBILITIES. That's a normal reaction!

Anyway,

why do you oppose solving the issue by having separate washrooms for transgender? <scratching head>

What's wrong with having separate washrooms?

Edited July 25, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

And if you want to be proactive then you teach children sex education from a young age so that they know if uncle is touching them somewhere inappropriate then they actually know this to be the case and that uncle needs some reacting to.

Given the preponderance of priests praying (pun) on children I would think that dressing in a frock (or whatever those priest gowns are called) would also be a way to profile child molesters but perhaps I'm wrong there.

Of course, you do know that a lot of sex assaults happen fast, in a violent way, do you msj?

And victims are not always children. And assaults are not always done "seductively." Someone could just as easily suddenly shove you in a stall, banging your head against the wall to daze you.....or, pull a knife and threaten you.

Never mind bringing up priests into this. You're too narrow-minded if you think only priests make up the bulk of sex abuse and assaults. You're blinded by your bias against religion that all you can think of are priests! Which only makes your response so ignorant.

Edited July 25, 2016 by betsy

[msj]

I doubt that this washroom business is as big a deal as it warrants.

I have seen you pooh pooh the mass molestation of children by people in religious institutions with nary a care in the world so excuse me if I don't think you give a damn about children but will make up anything possible to pursue your strange, trivial, agenda.

[betsy]

I doubt that this washroom business is as big a deal as it warrants.

I have seen you pooh pooh the mass molestation of children by people in religious institutions with nary a care in the world so excuse me if I don't think you give a damn about children but will make up anything possible to pursue your strange, trivial, agenda.

Stay focused!

Whether you think it's a big deal or not, is irrelevant. We're trying to address the concern by people, and women who'll be using these washrooms.

What's wrong with having separate washrooms for transgenders? All you care about is pushing for your so-called progressive issues, right? Forcing your ideology on everyone.

Edited July 25, 2016 by betsy

[msj]

Never mind bringing up priests into this. You're too narrow-minded if you think only priests make up the bulk of sex abuse and assaults.

I know the majority of assaults are done by men.

Most done by men who one would think are just ordinary people.

But you want to focus on a trivial sized population.

I mean, there are probably less transgendered people than religious priests/pastors who have the opportunities to attack people and yet I'm "narrow minded" for bringing them up.

What a joke.

[msj]

Stay focused!

What's wrong with having separate washrooms for transgenders?

I don't have anything against it.

I just don't see the need.

It would be like asking for priests and choir boys to use separate bathrooms.

[betsy]

I know the majority of assaults are done by men.

Most done by men who one would think are just ordinary people.

But you want to focus on a trivial sized population.

I mean, there are probably less transgendered people than religious priests/pastors who have the opportunities to attack people and yet I'm "narrow minded" for bringing them up.

What a joke.

It may be trivial to you.....but if controversies are erupting over this, obviously it's not trivial for others.

[betsy]

I don't have anything against it.

I just don't see the need.

It would be like asking for priests and choir boys to use separate bathrooms.

It's not all about you, you know. You're not the one who's in the shoes of these folks who feel concerned about it.

Edited July 25, 2016 by betsy

[msj]

You asked my opinion and I have given it so it is about my opinion.

[msj]

It may be trivial to you.....but if controversies are erupting over this, obviously it's not trivial for others.

To the extent that real harm comes from this then sure, it's not trivial.

But then we could get into an argument about closing down every religious institution in the world if we are going to go down this road.