Fort McMurray wildfire

Smallc · May 7, 2016

The only political assholery I've seen has been Ralph Goodale, who has spent hours in front of the cameras patting himself on the back about the role of the federal government so far. In reality, the feds have had very little involvement in managing and directing the actual situation. You'd never know it from Goodales grandstanding and puffery.

Has there ever been a time before this when the federal government has met every single request for assistance from a provincial government?

We get it - you hate Trudeau and anyone with anything to do with him.

overthere · May 7, 2016

Has there ever been a time before this when the federal government has met every single request for assistance from a provincial government?

We get it - you hate Trudeau and anyone with anything to do with him.

Incorrect. I acknowledge that you worship The King and His Court on the Rideau, but I reserve the right to not join you on bent knee. I see it has affected your ability to read and comprehend what others write, and to rationally observe and assess actual actions on the ground, not pixels on a screen..

This has little or nothing to do wth Notley. She is person I do not generally admire, but I acknowledge that she personally and her administration generally has done a good job of coordinating the essential work this week. Nobody known has died, it looks like everybody affected has gotten the essentials, the first responders continue heroic work to save as much of the city as possible. Well done

So who made that happen? Who coordinated the operations? Who is responsible for that win in a week of loss? To hear Ralph Goodale bleat on endlessly on the (surprise!) CBC national network feed, he and his colleagues had something to do with that response. It was- obviously- minimal at best. The coordination role of national firefighter resources........ AB asks, other provinces respond. Or don't. The RCMP are nominally a federal force, but they are paid for and directed by the people who employ them under contract: towns. cities, municopalities. The DND input(and there is a large base not far from FM at Namao) is very limited, they do not have the equipment or training to come in any numbers. Yet on and on Ralphie bleats, he and his boss would never miss an opportunity for screen time of this magnitude. Ottawa has a minor role for now, and yet Goodale pretends a central involvement right nwo with many govt departments. Its quite sickening, really. Ottawa does have a large role to play, but not now. Nobody in Alberta expects it to amount to much once the cameras aren't rolling, but there will be something.

Why do you applaud the Liberal grandstanding at a time like this?

overthere · May 7, 2016

I guess "very good" is subjective.......what percentage of the city is currently gone?

Less than 100% is less matter of claiming success than some good fortune.

Look, I know you don't like Notley but a fire of this nature didn't vote for or against her.

Having 5 more or 100 more air tankers won't make any difference in putting out or controlling this or any large fire. There will be never be enough money, and in any case it is completely impossible to extinguish every blaze as soon as it starts.What doomed the situation was the presence of fuel and the wind direction/speed. It wasn't poltical, until now.

Smallc · May 7, 2016

Why do you applaud the Liberal grandstanding at a time like this?

I think it's probably that we disagree on what constitutes grandstanding. Where you think it's anything a Trudeau government member might say, I disagree.

Hydraboss · May 7, 2016

Trudeau can damn well stay on "his side" of Canada and keep his nose out of "our neighbours to the west" 's business. Alberta doesn't need a f**king thing from Ottawa. Besides, while the Liberals contemplate whether or not to give any aid to Ft Mac, this shit occurs - http://globalnews.ca/news/2684486/justin-trudeau-in-toronto-to-make-transit-announcement/

Hey Justin Trudeau - stay out of our province.

As for anyone thinking "why is it still burning? where's the plan?" - you cannot put out a fire like this. The burn line is around 1000deg, 40-80 feet high and literally sucking the oxygen out from in front of it. Crews CANNOT fight it from the front. It has to either burn itself out, receive a ton (as in torrential amount) of rain, or both. Fire personnel and equipment like bombers can only try to guide the fire line. They've been using bombers to try to preserve houses in town. The crews and equipment from Syncrude, Suncor Base Plant, Albian Sands, Firebag, Ft Hills, Horizon, etc have been helping existing fire crews try and prevent the whole damn town from being lost and by providing side and rear guard for the evacuation convoys. Major thanks to all of them! I've spent the last week running my ass off to deal with things going on up there and I'm exhausted, so I can't even imagine what fire crews and police are feeling like.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Michael Hardner
corrected PM name

Smallc · May 7, 2016

Trudeau can damn well stay on "his side" of Canada and keep his nose out of "our neighbours to the west" 's business. Alberta doesn't need a f**king thing from Ottawa. Besides, while the Liberals contemplate whether or not to give any aid to Ft Mac, this shit occurs - http://globalnews.ca/news/2684486/justin-trudeau-in-toronto-to-make-transit-announcement/

Ottawa has sent a Hercules (and had many more, along with a Globemaster and a Polaris on standby), 4 SAR helicopters, 20,000 emergency cots, and any other supplies that the province has requested. As governments can walk and chew gum at the same time, other things also happened. That's normal. Life goes on.

Hey Justin - stay out of our province.

He'll come when it's not a current disaster zone, as should be the case for any leader. He'll come because he is the leader of the entire country's government. I would hope Trudeau learned his lesson from Harper and his failed BC fire publicity stunt.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Smallc

msj · May 7, 2016

Trudeau can damn well stay on "his side" of Canada and keep his nose out of "our neighbours to the west" 's business. Alberta doesn't need a f**king thing from Ottawa. Besides, while the Liberals contemplate whether or not to give any aid to Ft Mac, this shit occurs - http://globalnews.ca/news/2684486/justin-trudeau-in-toronto-to-make-transit-announcement/

Hey Justin - stay out of our province.

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Yes the government can conduct business while a disaster unfolds.

As smallc says, walk and chew at the same time.

There are also agreements in place from long ago that have formulas that will require the federal government to pay up relief funds

This will likely be 3 to 4 billion based on preliminary estimates that I have seen.

So why not settle down and let the fire burn itself out before going all hyperbolic explosive on this?

BC_chick · May 7, 2016

Trudeau can damn well stay on "his side" of Canada and keep his nose out of "our neighbours to the west" 's business. Alberta doesn't need a f**king thing from Ottawa. Besides, while the Liberals contemplate whether or not to give any aid to Ft Mac, this shit occurs - http://globalnews.ca/news/2684486/justin-trudeau-in-toronto-to-make-transit-announcement/

Hey Justin - stay out of our province.

As for anyone thinking "why is it still burning? where's the plan?" - you cannot put out a fire like this. The burn line is around 1000deg, 40-80 feet high and literally sucking the oxygen out from in front of it. Crews CANNOT fight it from the front. It has to either burn itself out, receive a ton (as in torrential amount) of rain, or both. Fire personnel and equipment like bombers can only try to guide the fire line. They've been using bombers to try to preserve houses in town. The crews and equipment from Syncrude, Suncor Base Plant, Albian Sands, Firebag, Ft Hills, Horizon, etc have been helping existing fire crews try and prevent the whole damn town from being lost and by providing side and rear guard for the evacuation convoys. Major thanks to all of them! I've spent the last week running my ass off to deal with things going on up there and I'm exhausted, so I can't even imagine what fire crews and police are feeling like.

So what I'm getting here is... Alberta doesn't need JT and there is nothing anyone can do for a fire this big but you're gonna hate anyway.

jacee · May 7, 2016

So what I'm getting here is... Alberta doesn't need JT and there is nothing anyone can do for a fire this big but you're gonna hate anyway.

They're having a rough week in Alberta.

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cybercoma · May 7, 2016

Personally I'm disappointed that Trudeau isn't out there with a garden hose. What a terrible PM.

capricorn · May 7, 2016

Personally I'm disappointed that Trudeau isn't out there with a garden hose.

Don't give him any ideas. :lol:

Seriously, I agree the PM should not show up there at this time. The situation right now is still too volatile. I'm sure a visit will come in good time.

cybercoma · May 7, 2016

The smoke and ash isn't good for his complexion and hair either.

jacee · May 7, 2016

Don't give him any ideas.

Seriously, I agree the PM should not show up there at this time. The situation right now is still too volatile. I'm sure a visit will come in good time.

I agree.

Not a photo op.

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capricorn · May 7, 2016

The smoke and ash isn't good for his complexion and hair either.

That's exactly what mommy said to him.

Derek 2.0 · May 7, 2016

let's recap: ............ "I await your cite(s)".

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from your cite:

Lane said the reduction in days could impact his company's ability to retain staff throughout the wildfire season.

"With our contracts being cut, if the season lulls for a little while, we could see a situation where we're laying off pilots and they go elsewhere," said Lane.

"They have other jobs to do throughout the rest of the year and they just might not be available to come back."

What good are air tankers if there is nobody to fly them?

Derek 2.0 · May 7, 2016

Having 5 more or 100 more air tankers won't make any difference in putting out or controlling this or any large fire. There will be never be enough money, and in any case it is completely impossible to extinguish every blaze as soon as it starts.What doomed the situation was the presence of fuel and the wind direction/speed. It wasn't poltical, until now.

Then why are they still using aerial tankers to combat the blaze (inside the city limits)? Clearly additional aerial tankers aren't going to make the fire worse, nor would the closed air tanker base (~1 hour South of Fort Mac) have degraded the (initial) response.

jacee · May 8, 2016

Then why are they still using aerial tankers to combat the blaze (inside the city limits)? Clearly additional aerial tankers aren't going to make the fire worse, nor would the closed air tanker base (~1 hour South of Fort Mac) have degraded the (initial) response.

Saving buildings, trying to steer the fire a bit.

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Derek 2.0 · May 8, 2016

Saving buildings, trying to steer the fire a bit.

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Exactly, so the suggestion that additional aerial tankers wouldn't help, namely ones then based an hour away and cut by the Alberta Government, wouldn't have helped beggars belief...........BC 2004 mentioned the Martin Mars (based a few hours away from my home), last year the BC Liberals were pressured into contracting it out again to fight fires after they cut its contract to save money...........and here we are today, and one of the World's largest water bombers, that have set records in the amount of water it has dropped, sits parked here on Vancouver Island.........why didn't the Alberta Government contract out them last weekend when the fire fighters on the ground said they needed help?

It would stand to reason, if aerial tankers are currently being used to save peoples homes in Fort Mac, one of the world largest water bombers should also be there, instead of looking for a contract.

bush_cheney2004 · May 8, 2016

....It would stand to reason, if aerial tankers are currently being used to save peoples homes in Fort Mac, one of the world largest water bombers should also be there, instead of looking for a contract.

Sure seems that way...maybe the Martin Mars contributes too much to ~~global warming~~ climate change.

overthere · May 8, 2016

Then why are they still using aerial tankers to combat the blaze (inside the city limits)? Clearly additional aerial tankers aren't going to make the fire worse, nor would the closed air tanker base (~1 hour South of Fort Mac) have degraded the (initial) response.

They aren't even working the main fire with air support. There is no point. Do you think this is their first rodeo, or their 100th?

last year the BC Liberals were pressured into contracting it out again to fight fires after they cut its contract to save money...

And how many 85,000 hectare fires did it extinguish?

Edited May 8, 2016 by overthere

Derek 2.0 · May 8, 2016

They aren't even working the main fire with air support. There is no point. Do you think this is their first rodeo, or their 100th?

It doesn't mater what rodeo this is for the fire fighters on the ground, the Notely government signs the contracts.

And how many 85,000 hectare fires did it extinguish?

I have no idea, but through their service, the Mars bombers have saved countless communities throughout British Columbia and the Pacific Northwest.

Derek 2.0 · May 8, 2016

Sure seems that way...maybe the Martin Mars contributes too much to ~~global warming~~ climate change.

Exactly........or why the Notely government hasn't sought the part in the contract with Conair (the largest aerial tanker company in the world) to reestablish the water bombers based outside of Fort Mac that were cut by the Alberta Government last year..........

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I wonder what effect this will have on the Alberta and Canadian Federal budget projections????

bush_cheney2004 · May 8, 2016

....I wonder what effect this will have on the Alberta and Canadian Federal budget projections????

Don't know, but the smoke from this wildfire choked people out of their beds this morning...way down "south".

Derek 2.0 · May 8, 2016

Don't know, but the smoke from this wildfire choked people out of their beds this morning...way down "south".

The cost to rebuild should be in the billions.......iirc, the Slave lake fire several years ago cost over $3 billion, and Fort Mac is many times larger. As to the economy in general, who knows, as of yet, no major O&G facilities have been damaged....but there should be a major impact with the stoppage in oil production.....and wait for the jump in home insurance

On the plus side, all those unemployed people in the trades due to the oil downturn, should see a mini building boom in Northern Alberta........

waldo · May 8, 2016

from your cite:

What good are air tankers if there is nobody to fly them?

which has absolutely nothing to do with the "here and now"... but nice deflection try, hey!

again, you challenged me for cites... you've got em now! And you? Are you now going to finally step-up and speak to your prior deflection away from your initial (debunked) focus on the $5.1 million cut? Are you now going to finally step-up and address your prior deflection to the other $10 million cut? Are you finally going to put forward substantive info/detail to show that the $10 million portion of the overall $15 million cut had any impact on the current wildfire? Are you?

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