Big Guy Posted April 30, 2016 Report Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) The executive of the Canadian Legion is losing the direction and respect of the vets. The Invictus Games involves wounded veterans from 15 countries taking part in sporting events to highlight their recovery and continuing spirit. Prince Harry will be in Toronto on Monday to outline details of the games to be held in that city in 2017. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-legion-under-fire-for-donating-poppy-funds-to-sports-event-for-veterans The Royal Canadian Legion is donating $500,000 from its poppy fund to sponsor a sports event, championed by Prince Harry, for wounded veterans from around the world. While the cause may be considered worthy, that is not why us members spend hours collecting donations from the public while distributing Poppies. The explanation for the collection of these funds is very clear and does not include sponsorship of "games". There are still many vets who are homeless and need special medical financial support while the executive decides to use that money to promote "additional exercise" for the handicapped. When there is not enough money for survival for many vets, we have no right to sponsor "games". This, on top of the refusal of the Canadian Legion to disclose the personal expenses of the executive, is causing concerns among the membership. The executive appear to think that just like in the active forces, the leadership is not accountable to the general membership. Well guess what, they are! Maybe it is time for a third party, accountable to the membership, be brought in to review the finances of our organization. Edited April 30, 2016 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Moonlight Graham Posted April 30, 2016 Report Posted April 30, 2016 I think he meant well and it's not a bad cause or anything but I agree, it should be spent on Canadian vets in more significant need. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Smoke Posted May 2, 2016 Report Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) When the volunteers came collecting, we donated $100 to our local Hospital. The volunteers who walked the streets, knocked on doors and collected donations used a bit of the money for a little wine and cheese party after they were done the fundraising. I had no problem with that. I thought they deserved it. Granted, $500,000 is a lot more than a few hundred for a party. But they had only collected approx. $20,000. How much of the Legions budget does $500,000 represent? Edited May 2, 2016 by Smoke Quote
PIK Posted May 2, 2016 Report Posted May 2, 2016 A lot of money but puts our vets out front and in the spot light. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Big Guy Posted May 2, 2016 Author Report Posted May 2, 2016 ... Granted, $500,000 is a lot more than a few hundred for a party. But they had only collected approx. $20,000. How much of the Legions budget does $500,000 represent? I do not know the details of the budget. The current policy is to not reveal it to the membership. The point is that those who volunteer to spend their time collecting donations do so under the assumption that it will all go back to the vets. http://www.legion.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/PoppyManual_Eng_Dec2014.pdf The Poppy fund is a very special fund and supposed to be kept separate from the regular Legion budget. Personally, I think the Invictus games are a good idea but this is a want, not a need. There are too many veterans whose needs have not been addressed to start to sped money on wants as decided upon by the leadership of the Legion. BTW - The Legion has nothing to do with the military but the leadership seems to want to treat it as such - and they will decide how much information the membership should have access to. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
?Impact Posted May 2, 2016 Report Posted May 2, 2016 Here is what Brad White from the Legion had to say about this: “(The funding for the Invictus Games) is helping veterans, It’s helping people make transitions…and brings awareness to the Canadian veteran community.” What is unclear to me is how centralized the poppy fund is, and how much the individual branches decide on disbursements. From some of the reports I have seen, it appears that some local branches support other activities from the poppy fund like Sea and Army Cadets. I don't know what is right, wrong, or expected, just pointing out what I have seen. Quote
Big Guy Posted May 3, 2016 Author Report Posted May 3, 2016 Here is what Brad White from the Legion had to say about this: “(The funding for the Invictus Games) is helping veterans, It’s helping people make transitions…and brings awareness to the Canadian veteran community.” What is unclear to me is how centralized the poppy fund is, and how much the individual branches decide on disbursements. From some of the reports I have seen, it appears that some local branches support other activities from the poppy fund like Sea and Army Cadets. I don't know what is right, wrong, or expected, just pointing out what I have seen. Any funding directed for the Legion assists veterans. My concern is the allocation of funds. I volunteer my time to accept donations for poppies, rain or shine, because the monies are supposed to be directed at veterans needs. Ask any veteran just how often there is enough funding to satisfy their needs. Taking $500,000 out of the poppy fund to support a media and public relations extravaganza to satisfy Legion (and veteran) wants, at the cost of their needs, Is wrong! How many homeless veterans could use that $500,000 to find a safe living environment? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Army Guy Posted May 9, 2016 Report Posted May 9, 2016 The executive of the Canadian Legion is losing the direction and respect of the vets. The Invictus Games involves wounded veterans from 15 countries taking part in sporting events to highlight their recovery and continuing spirit. Prince Harry will be in Toronto on Monday to outline details of the games to be held in that city in 2017. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-legion-under-fire-for-donating-poppy-funds-to-sports-event-for-veterans The Royal Canadian Legion is donating $500,000 from its poppy fund to sponsor a sports event, championed by Prince Harry, for wounded veterans from around the world. While the cause may be considered worthy, that is not why us members spend hours collecting donations from the public while distributing Poppies. The explanation for the collection of these funds is very clear and does not include sponsorship of "games". There are still many vets who are homeless and need special medical financial support while the executive decides to use that money to promote "additional exercise" for the handicapped. When there is not enough money for survival for many vets, we have no right to sponsor "games". This, on top of the refusal of the Canadian Legion to disclose the personal expenses of the executive, is causing concerns among the membership. The executive appear to think that just like in the active forces, the leadership is not accountable to the general membership. Well guess what, they are! Maybe it is time for a third party, accountable to the membership, be brought in to review the finances of our organization. This is my one of the few posts I agree with big guy statements. This funding of the games should be a federal or DND funded exercise....with very little legion support.... The legion is breaking it's own rules set out for the poppy fund, The fund has very strict guide lines, and despite what most Canadians think this fund is being used for it is not....Many Canadians think this fund is set up to help homeless vets or for special medical needs, but that is not in the funds operational scope...Not saying it does not happen, some legions will spend this fund on those very needs, but if they contact the regional legion office they will be answer with a NO, you can not spend this money on that type of need... My father was legion president for the ST George branch in New Brunswick, and was frustrated at not only all the red tape to help vets in need, but all the restrictions that belong with the poppy fund...to the point where he had a choice to turn in poppy funding back to regional HQ, or lie on how it was spent, to give you an idea, on remembrance day they could not use the poppy fund to pay for any of the ceremony expenses, nor a vets meal, nor be used to purchase new and much needed equipment for vets hospice or hospitals, nor on any special medical needs for vets. With all the restrictions attached to the Poppy fund it makes it hard for legion branches to spend any of it....If I was a member I would request a full detailed listing of those restrictions, you might be surprised....on just how little the vets receive from this fund....I know I was... One also has to remember not all the executive is ex military members, but rather a large amount are non vets....which defeats the purpose of the entire legion concept in the first place.... The legion is a dying institution that will soon fade into the darkness. for many reasons, they failed to attract any of the younger vets, do to attitudes of the older vets, according to them this generation of soldiers are not combat vets because they never went to war, and yet Korea was not a war either but a conflict with no declaration....hard to tell a Korean war vet that....and as for the Afghanistan conflict well, don't even bring it up....aside from attitudes for a lot of the older vets, failure to bring in a younger crowd, and for some of the reasons Big guy mentions these places will close their doors soon.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted May 10, 2016 Report Posted May 10, 2016 ...and as for the Afghanistan conflict well, don't even bring it up... Why is it verboten? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted May 10, 2016 Report Posted May 10, 2016 Why is it verboten? Older vets, including those from the cold war refuse to admit that the Afghan conflict was a war, that Afghan vets are not worthy of that status. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted May 11, 2016 Report Posted May 11, 2016 Do older vets generally support the mission to Afghanistan and the GWOT? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Big Guy Posted May 11, 2016 Author Report Posted May 11, 2016 Do older vets generally support the mission to Afghanistan and the GWOT? I cannot speak for anybody but those with whom I have shared some refreshments. While generally, it is discouraged to discuss current conflicts and military involvement in a Legion there are points of view shared by those who get upset with political decisions. My experience has been that those who have seen conflict believe (d) that there better be a very good reason to send Canadian troops in to a war - and that Afghanistan did not satisfy that threshold. I think they were correct. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
eyeball Posted May 11, 2016 Report Posted May 11, 2016 Judging by a couple of older folks I know I suspect a lot of the disgruntlement of older vets stems from much of the same moral and ethical dissonance that's shaped the criticism against involvement that's been raised outside the Legion. It's unfortunate that discussion is discouraged within it and that the Legion isn't consulted when the question of Canada's involvement in the invasions of other countries around the world comes up. I could get behind an activist Legion that was committed to leaving no stones unturned when it comes to determining that answer. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted May 11, 2016 Report Posted May 11, 2016 As a general rule politics are not suppose to be discussed in any mess or legion. As it quickly becomes a source of discourse. That being said the legion was a instruction that allowed vets to come together and help each other, discuss problems be it readjusting or just having someone to talk to that understands military life.... One of the main issues is that today very few Combat vets are left, leaving behind just the old cold war vets, who's experience does not include constant combat, Their attitude is our conflict does not count, that our experiences do not live up to the true war vets experiences....the younger generation of warriors are shunned, or talked down to....todays warriors prefer not to go to the legion, already having major issues dealing with day to day Canadians whom can not separate the warriors and the politics behind the conflict....why go to the legion and get more of the same from those that are suppose to be brothers in arms. That and the fact that the within the legion there is a major age difference , another source of divide, as they don't share very many things in common.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
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