More Clashes of Rights

[Hal 9000]

Look, I get the idea that allowing men, questioning, homos, and tranny's into female washrooms, change rooms and showers falls right in line with the "forward thinking", "inclusion", non-discriminatory" crowd. But lets face it, allowing dicks to swing free in the women's shower is just asking for trouble. I know some women think it's a great idea on the surface, but I can't imagine too many really want a guy in the shower with them.

Jacee can play whatever game she wants, but i guarantee that if I walked into her shower at the gym, she'd be calling for security immediately.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Hal 9000

[Shady]

I love the irony of people refusing to do business with a state because it's contrary to their beliefs, because some people want to refuse to do business that impacts their beliefs.

[eyeball]

In the meantime, what are you going to do when you just gotta go Shady? Put yourself in someone else's panties for a moment.

[eyeball]

Look, I get the idea that allowing men, questioning, homos, and tranny's into female washrooms, change rooms and showers falls right in line with the "forward thinking", "inclusion", non-discriminatory" crowd.

What about the crowd that's just gotta go?

Left unaddressed, or dressed as the case may be, bladder control is a far more serious issue that can actually lead to serious injury and even death.

Edited April 13, 2016 by eyeball

[Bryan]

I disagree.

It is nobody's business what genitalia are under your skirt.

And your skirt would cause some consternation in the men's room.

.

It damn well is my business if a man tries to go into the shower/change room at the pool or the gym when my daughter is in there.

[eyeball]

It damn well is my business if a man tries to go into the shower/change room at the pool or the gym when my daughter is in there.

Well okay but can't you also let her know that unusual stuff that happens on occasion more often than not has a reasonable explanation that usually negates the need to get freaked out about it?

[Bryan]

Well okay but can't you also let her know that unusual stuff that happens on occasion more often than not has a reasonable explanation that usually negates the need to get freaked out about it?

There is no reasonable explanation for an adult male to be entering an area where girls are changing and showering.

[Wilber]

I know women that won't sit on the toilets and prefer to hover above to do their thing. Just ask anyone who cleans bars, clubs and gas station bathrooms what they think of women's bathrooms.

Got that right. I worked in gas stations when I was young and there was no job worse than cleaning the women's restroom. I remember thinking, what the hell do they do in here? Wouldn't go near one of the things if I had a choice.

[kimmy]

I don't know if its that easy. Maybe there is a large majority of women who aren't comfortable with a dude strolling in and out of their bathroom. A year ago, you might not want Bruce Jenner in your washroom, today he is taking estrogen and grown his hair and all all of the sudden, women are ok with it? I don't know, just my opinion, but i think it opens the door to sickos (who may or may not be trans) going into womens washrooms to get their jollies or worse, maybe inflict harm on women.

Not every rule/law is about accepting or rejecting gays, some are about the protection and comfort of straights too.

So... North Carolina has had some sort of ongoing problem with men dressing up in drag and going into womens' washrooms to harass or assault?

Or is North Carolina taking preemptive action in case this suddenly breaks out?

So other jurisdictions have this problem, or is it specific to North Carolina?

As far as I know BC doesn't have legislation to stop people from dressing up in drag and going into the opposite sex's washrooms... should I be worried? When will this wave of cross-dressing peepers strike BC? Should I contact Christy Clark?

-k

[kimmy]

On a personal level, i couldn't care less, but i can see why some women would care.

It'll be all good, until some perv strolls into a bathroom and rapes (or worse) a woman. I know that can happen anyway,but people usually notice a dude walking into a woman's washroom.

Sometimes separating men from women is good for the safety of women. One could argue that the problems in universities can be tracked down to co-ed dorms, co-ed bathrooms and generally a reluctance to keep men and women separate in certain situations.

Soooo... some transgender person goes into the womens' washroom, suddenly has the uncontrollable urge to commit rape, climbs over or crawls under the divider between toilets, and attacks?

I'm kind of speechless... if some hypothetical guy has such complete inability to control himself, what makes you think an ordinance is going to stop him? To be honest, that hypothetical guy sounds like he'd be a menace in pretty much any situation. What makes you think that a bathroom ordinance is going to protect society from this animal?

To me it kind of seems like you're trying to invent some kind of fantasy scenario to justify this law, because this law is a solution in search of a problem.

-k

[Guest]

Soooo... some transgender person goes into the womens' washroom, suddenly has the uncontrollable urge to commit rape, climbs over or crawls under the divider between toilets, and attacks?

I'm kind of speechless... if some hypothetical guy has such complete inability to control himself, what makes you think an ordinance is going to stop him? To be honest, that hypothetical guy sounds like he'd be a menace in pretty much any situation. What makes you think that a bathroom ordinance is going to protect society from this animal?

To me it kind of seems like you're trying to invent some kind of fantasy scenario to justify this law, because this law is a solution in search of a problem.

-k

I think voyeurs and exhibitionists would be more of a concern than rapists, if at all. (Just an observation. Not against it)

Edited April 14, 2016 by bcsapper

[Hal 9000]

Soooo... some transgender person goes into the womens' washroom, suddenly has the uncontrollable urge to commit rape, climbs over or crawls under the divider between toilets, and attacks?

I'm kind of speechless... if some hypothetical guy has such complete inability to control himself, what makes you think an ordinance is going to stop him? To be honest, that hypothetical guy sounds like he'd be a menace in pretty much any situation. What makes you think that a bathroom ordinance is going to protect society from this animal?

To me it kind of seems like you're trying to invent some kind of fantasy scenario to justify this law, because this law is a solution in search of a problem.

-k

...don't forget change rooms and showers too.

[kimmy]

I think voyeurs and exhibitionists would be more of a concern than rapists, if at all. (Just an observation. Not against it)

...well, if we're talking about washrooms, there's not a whole lot to see, aside from partitions and perhaps a line-up.

...don't forget change rooms and showers too.

So you're going to just drop the transvestite rapist angle? Ok. Let's move on.

I'm completely willing to admit that the idea of a biological male in the change room and showers makes me uncomfortable.

I still have to confess I hadn't heard of this being an issue. Perhaps things are just a little different in North Carolina.

-k

[Hal 9000]

...well, if we're talking about washrooms, there's not a whole lot to see, aside from partitions and perhaps a line-up.

So you're going to just drop the transvestite rapist angle? Ok. Let's move on.

I'm completely willing to admit that the idea of a biological male in the change room and showers makes me uncomfortable.

I still have to confess I hadn't heard of this being an issue. Perhaps things are just a little different in North Carolina.

-k

Oh, stop! The law is about the whole thing and i've argued against the showers, change room aspect as well as the bathroom. Unfortunately, people like you and Jacee want to only reference the bathroom idea - because that's good for your argument.

All sorts of things can happen when men (gays, tranny's etc) are allowed where women shit, shower or change - and most of those things aren't positive. It's a great thought to have everybody shower together, but human nature dictates that problems will arise. Rape? Maybe, maybe not! As BC said voyeurs and exhibitionists is a strong possibility too.

Sorry, if I don't want some dude watching my teen age daughters shower - maybe I'm weird that way.

[eyeball]

There is no reasonable explanation for an adult male to be entering an area where girls are changing and showering.

Absolutely none whatsoever?

a medical emergency?

a security concern?

a simple mistake?

a panicked father looking for his daughter?

[eyeball]

...don't forget change rooms and showers too.

Probably as slippery as the slope this discussion is on I bet.

[Hal 9000]

Absolutely none whatsoever?

a medical emergency?

a security concern?

a simple mistake?

a panicked father looking for his daughter?

Thanks for that Captain Obvious!

[eyeball]

It didn't seem that obvious up the ways a bit. What happened?

[Hal 9000]

This is a pretty good example of how this will play out in real life.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/college-allows-transgender-man-to-expose-himself-to-young-girls.html

[Bryan]

Absolutely none whatsoever?

a medical emergency?

a security concern?

a simple mistake?

a panicked father looking for his daughter?

Sure, people make mistakes. The rest though? Not without first giving warning and letting the girls cover up and/or exit before he enters.

[kimmy]

Oh, stop! The law is about the whole thing and i've argued against the showers, change room aspect as well as the bathroom. Unfortunately, people like you and Jacee want to only reference the bathroom idea - because that's good for your argument.

And I think you've dropped back to the showers and changing rooms because that's all you have left. This "sexual predators in bathrooms" scenario that you and others have been promoting is pure fiction designed to rally people into supporting laws that actually go far beyond keeping men from showering with girls.

The North Carolina HB2 law was enacted to over-rule Charlotte's civic law which provided a variety of anti-discrimination protection for LGBT people. HB2 forbade Charlotte (or any other municipality) in North Carolina from enacting legislation to provide anti-discrimination protections other than those already provided by state law-- a list on which sexual orientation is conspicuously absent. It explicitly removes the right to pursue civil action for discrimination. You can sit there and tell me it's not an attack on gay people, and maybe you even believe it, but the guys who wrote the law know what's up.

Now Gov. McCrory gets on TV and says "gee, y'all, I know y'all mad, but we just want people to have privacy in the can. Now, we all love equality here just as much as you folks, so I'mma ask the house to look into fixing that anti-discrimination thing some time in the future, maybe they get around to that sometime, y'all, so don't be bad, and especially don't take away our NBA all-star game next year, y'hear?"

All sorts of things can happen when men (gays, tranny's etc) are allowed where women shit, shower or change - and most of those things aren't positive. It's a great thought to have everybody shower together, but human nature dictates that problems will arise. Rape? Maybe, maybe not! As BC said voyeurs and exhibitionists is a strong possibility too.

Sorry, if I don't want some dude watching my teen age daughters shower - maybe I'm weird that way.

Sure, I don't want some dude watching me in the shower either.

This is the kind of emotionalism that these guys have used to con people like you into supporting laws that go way beyond keeping dudes out of your daughter's shower.

This is a pretty good example of how this will play out in real life.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/college-allows-transgender-man-to-expose-himself-to-young-girls.html

Since it's a Todd Starnes story, I'll have to read about it from another source and get back to you. If Starnes said the sky was blue, I'd want time stamped photographs and spectroscopic analysis before I believed him. He's probably the single biggest liar at any major network, which is quite a feat.

-k

[Hal 9000]

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/aaack-girls-getting-eyeful-in-locker-room/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227562/Colleen-Francis-Outrage-transgendered-woman-permitted-use-college-womens-locker-room-exposing-himself.html

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/11/transgender-student-in-womens-locker-room-raises-uproar/

http://komonews.com/archive/controversy-swirls-around-local-transgender-college-student

You see Kimmy, this sick douchebag is given the chance to use the women's locker room and sauna and what does he do? Instead of being discreet and respectful of others, he chooses to let his dick swing around in front of girls as young as 6 years old. You see, now to ensure this sick fak gets his equality, dozens of young girls are compromised, and dozens of their families now have a concern that this guy is seeing their children naked and vice versa.

You may think is a great and wonderful step forward for humanity, but you might think differently once your 6 YO girl has some sicko exposing himself in her presence.

Go ahead, be as sarcastic as you want, paint me as the bad man, but please stop being so naive.

[kimmy]

You see Kimmy, this sick douchebag is given the chance to use the women's locker room and sauna and what does he do? Instead of being discreet and respectful of others, he chooses to let his dick swing around in front of girls as young as 6 years old. You see, now to ensure this sick fak gets his equality, dozens of young girls are compromised, and dozens of their families now have a concern that this guy is seeing their children naked and vice versa.

I'm sure that such a circumstance could have been handled without a state law prohibiting municipal legislation against anti-gay discrimination, or banning people from pursuing civil action for anti-gay discrimination.

-k

[jacee]

I see no threat or trauma, but I think she showed disrespect, and is clearly making things more difficult for other Trans women.

I'm sure it's very frustrating for her to feel she always has to hide her body, but more consideration for the young people sharing the locker room would be expected.

But then ... I'm not fussy about any woman in a public sauna ...

"... sitting with her legs open with her ... genitalia showing"

I expect that's disturbing to some children and adults too.

Maybe that's just me.

It's a good way to get the sauna to yourself, though. ?

I don't think seeing a penis is a traumatic thing, though.

Brothers and father's have them.

Some families are very open and naturally inclined ... like the naked German family who startled my young daughter at a secluded lake once.

She thought they needed to be told to put suits on. I explained that it was their custom, and she was ok with it, played with the kids.

The outrage - Hal - is quite overblown.

Some people need to get over obsessively associating nudity only with sex acts. That obsession is what traumatizes children. Overblown and obsessive adult reactions is what traumatizes kids.

I taught swimming to very young kids.

My biggest challenge was teaching overreactive parents not to freak out when their kid's head went underwater.

If the parent learned that, the kid learned to swim.

If the parent continued to freak out, the kid became terrified of the water.

You can easily make your kid terrified of anything you choose ... or not.

.

Edited April 14, 2016 by jacee

[Bob Macadoo]

Instead of being discreet and respectful of others, he chooses to let his dick swing around in front of girls as young as 6 years old. You see, now to ensure this sick fak gets his equality, dozens of young girls are compromised, and dozens of their families now have a concern that this guy is seeing their children naked and vice versa.

You may think is a great and wonderful step forward for humanity, but you might think differently once your 6 YO girl has some sicko exposing himself in her presence.

Go ahead, be as sarcastic as you want, paint me as the bad man, but please stop being so naive.

How is your daughter now "compromised"? In what way? Was she assured perpetual virginity until this horrific situation? Is she on some road to depravity that is beyond your influence? For that matter if this sod is such a concern for you why is it OK for them to be naked in front of your son? Are you not worried he will be sodomized? Or is it you think so little of your delicate flower in comparison?