People are getting fed up with natives

[SunnyWays]

They will be entitled to GAI wherever they live.

Witholding money to try to force them to move is ... probably not legal, certainly barbaric.

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Probably doesn't matter anyway - like those in Attawaspikat who choose to live in pretty barbaric conditions. I doubt a GAI of $20K is going to make much of a difference.

[Argus]

That choice exists now. People can choose to steal if they want, and then go to jail if they are caught. At what point, between us discussing it on a forum and the government deciding it's not going to go with it, do you expect this crime wave to begin?

I find it offensive and ridiculous how much we spend incarcerating non-violent offenders. Don't tell me you couldn't make money out of a captive workforce which doesn't have to be paid even minimum wages.

[Argus]

I believe that if you do some research on guaranteed minimum incomes that you may find professionals who disagree with you. We already have a form of GAI in our native communities and our current welfare system.

And what a great job that's done for those communities too...

[Argus]

Now you're just making it up.

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Which treaties require we provide health care to the natives or build and maintain housing for them?

[TimG]

OK Make that $10,000 a year. BTW Then there would be no need for EI payments or an EI system.

Try $5000 a year and that assumes that people currently collecting OAS and GIS would be OK with their benefits being cut to pay for GAI. If OAS has to be left alone for political reasons then we could fund a GAI in the range of 1-2K per year.

[Big Guy]

Try $5000 a year and that assumes that people currently collecting OAS and GIS would be OK with their benefits being cut to pay for GAI. If OAS has to be left alone for political reasons then we could fund a GAI in the range of 1-2K per year.

The challenge is finding the figure that satisfies the intent. I still feel that $20,000 is closer but those studying the concept suggest that it should be what we consider the "poverty level" level for Canadians.

With GMI, the OAS, GSI , EI and CPP would disappear since these were all put into place to support those who were living below the poverty line. As would all social supplemental programs, welfare, social housing etc.

The obvious problem is transferring to this system, establishing who is a "Canadian" and eligible for GMI, and regional economic differences. I am not declaring it as the solution to all problems but am taking the concept more seriously than I had in the past.

GMI would REPLACE all subsidies and payments to aboriginals no matter where they live. They would be treated exactly like all Canadians. There are a few individuals here who ask why people should work if they don't have to? Would you quit your job now for a cheque for $1,600 a month - but - no more Employment Insurance, no more Canada Pension Plan no more any subsidy? There are a few who suggest that OHIP could also disappear with GMI.

[TimG]

The challenge is finding the figure that satisfies the intent. I still feel that $20,000 is closer but those studying the concept suggest that it should be what we consider the "poverty level" level for Canadians.

As I said it makes no difference what some eggheads think is appropriate. What is matters is how much money is available to fund the program. I did the math and if we fund the program with existing revenues there is only enough money after savings for a GAI of about 5-7K. However, this is currently less than what OAS/GIS recipients currently receive so funding at that level would require that the OAS/GIS recipients accept a benefit cut. If you exclude OAS/GIS from the money that can be re-allocated the remaining programs only leave enough for a GAI in the 2K range.

GAI is a fantasy and talking about the 'advantages' of a program that can never exist is a waste of time.

Edited April 1, 2016 by TimG

[Big Guy]

I understand. And I agree that you should not spend any more time researching it. I intend to continue to pursue investigating a concept that many economic specialists and a few Nobel Prize winners (sorry - "eggheads") consider a possible financial structure for the future.

Thank you for sharing your time and deciding not to waste any more.

[jacee]

Which treaties require we provide health care to the natives or build and maintain housing for them?

Indian Act

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[jacee]

The challenge is finding the figure that satisfies the intent. I still feel that $20,000 is closer but those studying the concept suggest that it should be what we consider the "poverty level" level for Canadians.

Income would minimally have to match current disability allowance rates, and/or OAS/GIS rates and benefits for those totally reliant.

That would be the starting point, I think.

With GMI, the OAS, GSI , EI and CPP would disappear since these were all put into place to support those who were living below the poverty line. As would all social supplemental programs, welfare, social housing etc.

Pretty much ... Housing allowances would have to increase to match subsidies and meet market rates, again thinking what the minimum would have to be.

CPP wouldn't be eliminated as it's a work pension based on contributions, personal savings, and not linked to basic income.

The obvious problem is transferring to this system, establishing who is a "Canadian" and eligible for GMI, and regional economic differences.

Ah, yes. Good point.

All possible.

I am not declaring it as the solution to all problems but am taking the concept more seriously than I had in the past.

It's serious this time.

GMI would REPLACE all subsidies and payments to aboriginals no matter where they live. They would be treated exactly like all Canadians.

In terms of rates for basic personal income, yes, with cost of living adjustments.

There are still other business matters and band revenues under the Indian Act and various agreements.

There are a few individuals here who ask why people should work if they don't have to? Would you quit your job now for a cheque for $1,600 a month - but - no more Employment Insurance, no more Canada Pension Plan no more any subsidy?

Again, CPP isn't included.

Presumably Welfare/disability EI, WSIB? and senior incomes.

There are a few who suggest that OHIP could also disappear with GMI.

Not likely.

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[jacee]

As I said it makes no difference what some eggheads think is appropriate. What is matters is how much money is available to fund the program. I did the math and if we fund the program with existing revenues there is only enough money after savings for a GAI of about 5-7K.

What "existing revenues" are you counting?

However, this is currently less than what OAS/GIS recipients currently receive so funding at that level would require that the OAS/GIS recipients accept a benefit cut. If you exclude OAS/GIS from the money that can be re-allocated the remaining programs only leave enough for a GAI in the 2K range.

GAI is a fantasy and talking about the 'advantages' of a program that can never exist is a waste of time.

You haven't justified those numbers or that conclusion.

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Edited April 2, 2016 by jacee

[Argus]

Indian Act

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That's not a treaty

[jacee]

That's not a treaty

It incorporates some treaty issues and may address your questions.

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Edited April 2, 2016 by jacee

[Accountability Now]

Now you're just making it up.

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Nah...I leave that to you

[Accountability Now]

If payment wasn't made, there was no deal.

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Payment was made. That's why it hasn't gone to court

[jacee]

Payment was made. That's why it hasn't gone to court

It hasn't been established that all relevant payments were made.

(Now you are just making it up.)

That's why it is going to court.

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Edited April 3, 2016 by jacee

[jacee]

As I said it makes no difference what some eggheads think is appropriate. What is matters is how much money is available to fund the program. I did the math and if we fund the program with existing revenues there is only enough money after savings for a GAI of about 5-7K. However, this is currently less than what OAS/GIS recipients currently receive so funding at that level would require that the OAS/GIS recipients accept a benefit cut. If you exclude OAS/GIS from the money that can be re-allocated the remaining programs only leave enough for a GAI in the 2K range.

GAI is a fantasy and talking about the 'advantages' of a program that can never exist is a waste of time.

This discussion belongs here:

Ontario looking at Guaranteed Annual Income

[Accountability Now]

It hasn't been established that all relevant payments were made.

(Now you are just making it up.)

That's why it is going to court.

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No. Payments were made and not all members got their share. As per usual the Chiefs or leaders in the group screwed over others. Happened then, happens now.

[jacee]

No. Payments were made and not all members got their share. As per usual the Chiefs or leaders in the group screwed over others. Happened then, happens now.

Specifically what claim are you making up slanderous nonsense about?

Link please?

You are not addressing the issue of trust fund fraud that I raised.

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[WestCanMan]

From watching what is happening to the 1st Nations in Canada I almost feel like the easiest way to kill a culture is with welfare.

People grow up on the reserves knowing that they don't have to do well in school, in sports, in the trades, or in any facet of the workforce in order to get food and shelter. They feel more boredom than adversity and bored youths of any race, culture or creed are a recipe for disaster.

I've seen white people grow up with the same "problem". They have well-off parents and they know that they will inherit a home and some money when they get older so their life strategy revolves around waiting for their inheritance. If you don't feel like you ever need to save up a down-payment it's easy to spend $10/day on cigs, keep the fridge stocked with booze, and just party and pay rent for 25 years. By the time they get an inheritance they have no idea how to manage money and it's gone almost as fast as it came.

It's really sad for the first nations people and I don't know the answer to any of these problems. The last thing that first nations people want is my version of a solution anyways and I don't blame them.

[davidmike]

It's not exactly clear how or what McGee and his team can do. But the fact that he's getting involved, and apparently deeply.

[Argus]

From watching what is happening to the 1st Nations in Canada I almost feel like the easiest way to kill a culture is with welfare.

Look at Black culture down south for the main example of that.

[cybercoma]

"Black culture"

Buy that dogwhistle at Dollarama?

[bush_cheney2004]

Look at Black culture down south for the main example of that.

Or look at "white culture" up north....

[WestCanMan]

bush-cheney - that's not a very strong endorsement for Trump. Belly button lint has created more jobs than Justin Trudeau.