Another Terrorist Attack in Canada

[Guest]

Some of the population.

Some.

You could stop lumping them all together, and acknowledge extremism.

.

He is acknowledging extremism. His fear for moderate Muslims does just that.

[WestCanMan]

On the western front we are seeing the rise of Christianists and fascists. Even if they are not yet in the same stratosphere as the Islamists it is important to squash the extremists before they gain momentum. We have a stable, peaceful (mostly) culture that should be preserved from the advance of the right.

The advance of the right is a natural reaction to the rise of abhorrent violence, and to our Prime Minister's refusal to acknowledge any dangers whatsoever from his brothers. The people who you accuse of being in "the advance of the right" are the people who appreciate the society that we live in and want to protect it. The rise of leftist naivete & stupidity is even more dangerous.

I was among those who thought that when Obama was elected it would be a good thing to quell racism in the US. Turns out Obama just fanned the flames by publicly applauding criminal demonstrations and making stupid comments like "it could have been me". He never says a word about "respecting police" or even "not murdering them" and the supposed liberals on the left just smile and wave.

Trudeau is doing the exact same thing here with respect to the rise of Mohammedan extremism. He's completely ignoring things like dangers and consequences in favour of playing the politically correct buffoon role. His family isn't in danger from terrorists, he's their hero. But innocent Canadians will die as a result of his stupidity and the lefties will scatter blame in every direction but the bullseye.

We need to leave behind the liberals and the conservatives and find the pragmatics.

EG:

What's an actual solution to Syrian refugees?

Liberals: Bring in as many muslim refugees as you can. My kindergarten teacher taught me that all cultures are equal and therefor the muslims from the world's foremost terrorist hotbed are going to fit in here just the same as some Hindus, Sikhs or Buddhists would. Pay no heed to the fact that we are running a massive deficit and can't afford the $1,000,000,000 price tag. We can cut costs by forgetting our other election promises (lmao at the 18-25 yr olds who voted for Trudeau) and abandoning our military. We will leave the Christians and Yazidis to die like dogs because it's not as politically correct to save them as it is to save the muslims right now.

Conservatives: Don't allow any muslims into the country no matter what. Just save the christians. More bombs on Syria = less problems.

Pragmatic: Set up un safe havens in syria and Iraq and give the people food and aid there. Use the massive tent cities in Saudi Arabia to house the people who have fled to keep them safe. Recruit and train military and police from the ranks of the refugees to guard the UN safe havens. Don't tell me that the UN and NATO can't carve out a few firebases to guard some safe havens. Honestly, saving the people who were allowed to or able to flee isn't all that honourable. It's ridiculous that genocide is still occurring in 2016 with all the firepower available to the UN. It's also ridiculous that we just have to give out food and shelter that we can't afford.

[WestCanMan]

Sparked you mean, past tense - the place burst into flames decades ago and all we've been doing since is pour gasoline on them.

If jihad was invented after 1949 I would believe you. The ISIS playbook comes from the origin of Islam.

[WestCanMan]

They haven't been:

In 2015, after white supremacist Dylann Roof shot and killed nine African-Americans at a well-known black church in Charleston, South Carolina, the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan distributed Klan propaganda ... readers were encouraged to ring a hotline that saluted Roof, which said, We in the Loyal White Knights would like to say hail victory to Dylann S. Roof who decided to do what the bible told him

- See more at: http://www.counterextremism.com/threat/ku-klux-klan#sthash.HzPlNQWY.dpuf

.

Re: Dylann Roof, from wikipedia:

"He also faces federal hate crime charges, for which he faces the death penalty. His trial in state court will start on July 11, 2016."

It's important for 99% of Americans that Dylann Roof gets what's coming to him. The prosecutors in his trial will surpass the legendary failure status of Clark & Darden if they can't get the death penalty for him. They will select the best possible set of charges to attain their goal.

There is no political or religious agenda behind his actions, it's just the murder of another race of humans. That crime specifically falls under the category of hate crime, and thus he is being tried there. If they tried to call his crime something that it wasn't, that would obviously hurt their chances of winning.

[WestCanMan]

I don't.

The post was in response to a series that started with one poster intimating how religion is not the problem, conservatism is, and included my response, other than this flippant one, that conservative views vary widely. Hence the Rona Ambrose question there.

You saw the word "denounced" in the bold quote?

Ok, my bad. I don't get on here very often and it gets confusing trying to piece together all the different conversations going on.

[eyeball]

If jihad was invented after 1949 I would believe you. The ISIS playbook comes from the origin of Islam.

No it doesn't, it comes from George W Bush's pragmatism and the idiots who supported/defended his setting the ME on fire.

[bush_cheney2004]

No it doesn't, it comes from George W Bush's pragmatism and the idiots who supported/defended his setting the ME on fire.

Nope....started long before that....George Bush just continued the game by rushing the net.

[WestCanMan]

Some of the population.

Some.

You could stop lumping them all together, and acknowledge extremism.

.

You need to understand that when 25,000 __________s gather in one place and engage in _____________, there are other protests all over the place, and there are zero people showing up from the other side, what that represent is a cross-section of the whole society.

How many things have you felt strongly for or against? Do you show up at a rally for every single one of them? No, of course not. You have a job or go to school, you have family commitments, other interests, or other valid reasons to not attend such as distance or cost to get there, etc.

For every person who shows up to start fires because of that event, there are several hundreds more who felt the same way but didn't make it to the event.

Those tens of thousands of people are showing up to cause mayhem to protest the execution of a murderer. The murdered man was a governor. He was murdered for speaking against anti-blasphemy laws. Those anti-blasphemy laws got a christian woman the death penalty, but there were no riots there. Do you not see an enormous, gargantuan, preposterous problem with that?

She dies for saying words. Yay.

Man gets murdered for saying that's too harsh. Yay.

Man executed for murdering a man for sticking up for a woman. RIIIIIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOT! BURRRRRRRRRN! HAAAAAAAAAAATE!

That's not "just 25,000 idiots". That's not like a small group of clowns handing out flyers. That is proof of mass insanity.

Jaceee I'm pretty sure that you consider yourself a liberal. What would you think of your fellow citizens if that played out in your neighbourhood? I bet you hate Trump, and he's so liberal compared to those idiots that he looks like a messiah.

[WestCanMan]

No it doesn't,

eyeball you have just proven with that statement that you don't know the basics of Islam. It's starting point. It's pillars. It's fundamentals.

You are seriously engaging in a topic with your firm stance and absolutely no clue what you are talking about. That's awesome.

Read up about the origins of Islam. Of Mohammed. Then come back to this.

Edited April 2, 2016 by WestCanMan

[jacee]

You've been wasting your time because religion's got bugger all to do with anything.

The problem with the left is that its too soft on the right and its denial/defence of western geopolitical machinations around control of oil and profits from it. The problem with the right is the hard-boiled conservatism that's seized it - an extreme way of viewing the world that's as vile and dangerous as any jihadis.

I have been wondering what effect the unexpected collapse of oil may have on extremists of Islam and the west.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/the-geopolitics-of-oil-pr_b_5981798.html

Any rational critique of Islam that doesnt include the phrase oil is the engine of the world economy at some point within the argument risks omitting the 800 pound gorilla directly linked to wars, Islamic fundamentalism, and terrorism.

...

We continually sell billions of weapons to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, even though both counties have been linked to the origins of the Islamic radicalism were fighting today in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The oil industry and the war industry created 'the war on terror'.

With oil in a tailspin, will they ramp up provocations to war ... for the profits?

Trump is certainly following that agenda.

What is sad is that ordinary soldiers and some citizens just don't comprehend how they are incited to hatred and used as pawns to make billionaires richer.

If a rich man is telling you to hate Muslims, you can bet you're putting money in his pocket if you go along with his wishes.

.

[WestCanMan]

I have been wondering what effect the unexpected collapse of oil may have on extremists of Islam and the west.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/the-geopolitics-of-oil-pr_b_5981798.html

Any rational critique of Islam that doesnt include the phrase oil is the engine of the world economy at some point within the argument risks omitting the 800 pound gorilla directly linked to wars, Islamic fundamentalism, and terrorism.

...

We continually sell billions of weapons to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, even though both counties have been linked to the origins of the Islamic radicalism were fighting today in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The oil industry and the war industry created 'the war on terror'.

With oil in a tailspin, will they ramp up provocations to war ... for the profits?

Trump is certainly following that agenda.

What is sad is that ordinary soldiers and some citizens just don't comprehend how they are incited to hatred and used as pawns to make billionaires richer.

If a rich man is telling you to hate Muslims, you can bet you're putting money in his pocket if you go along with his wishes.

.

Oil is a new twist in an old story. Noone knew that Oil would ever be of such significance when jihad and the crusades started. The shia and sunnis have been fighting each longer since long before Oil was of any importance. Jews, christians, muslims, protestants and catholics were killing each other before anyone ever dreamed oil would become a factor. Oil plays a part in every minute of our waking lives, but it wasn't the "start" of this at all. If Oil suddenly becomes irrelevant religions of the world will still be at war with each other for control of our minds (lives, money...).

[jacee]

Re: Dylann Roof, from wikipedia:

"He also faces federal hate crime charges, for which he faces the death penalty. His trial in state court will start on July 11, 2016."

It's important for 99% of Americans that Dylann Roof gets what's coming to him. The prosecutors in his trial will surpass the legendary failure status of Clark & Darden if they can't get the death penalty for him. They will select the best possible set of charges to attain their goal.

There is no political or religious agenda behind his actions, it's just the murder of another race of humans. That crime specifically falls under the category of hate crime, and thus he is being tried there. If they tried to call his crime something that it wasn't, that would obviously hurt their chances of winning.

Hate crime, yes ... but not terrorism:

"We in the Loyal White Knights would like to say hail victory to Dylann S. Roof who decided to do what the bible told him"

Sounds religious to me!

Why are the White Knights not charged?

Why are the charges not terrorism?

.

[bush_cheney2004]

Sounds religious to me!

Why are the White Knights not charged?

Why are the charges not terrorism?

.

Because it wasn't the FLQ....and it didn't happen in Canada.

[jacee]

You need to understand that when 25,000 __________s gather in one place and engage in _____________, there are other protests all over the place, and there are zero people showing up from the other side, what that represent is a cross-section of the whole society.

No it doesn't. It means people with different views are avoiding potentially dangerous confrontation.

Jaceee I'm pretty sure that you consider yourself a liberal.

No I don't.

What would you think of your fellow citizens if that played out in your neighbourhood? I bet you hate Trump, and he's so liberal compared to those idiots that he looks like a messiah.

No he doesn't.

.

[WestCanMan]

No it doesn't. It means people with different views are avoiding potentially dangerous confrontation.

No I don't.

No he doesn't.

.

Yes it does, that is exactly what it means. Only a small percentage of people get off their asses. IE, for every single person that shows up hundreds more feel the same way. It's a proven statistic and easily understandable from a common sense pov. But don't let the truth get in the way of a good argument. Furthermore, if the moderates have such a huge advantage in numbers then what would they have to fear? The crazies are just a small minority compared to moderates according to you.

No comment.

Oh yes he does. Almost everyone in North America does. Just think how far we are from this scenario in North America:

1) A woman is given the death penalty for wearing a niqab.

2) The premier of Saskatchewan says "that penalty is too harsh".

3) The premier is murdered for making that comment.

4) The murderer gets the death penalty.

5) An angry mob of 25,000 Canadians turns up to burn cars to protest the execution of the murderer of the Premier of Saskatchewan - because that's the biggest problem in this entire screwed up scenario.

Yes, Donald Trump is a messiah compared to that swarm of losers, and Donald Trump is a loser by north american standards.

[WestCanMan]

Hate crime, yes ... but not terrorism:

"We in the Loyal White Knights would like to say hail victory to Dylann S. Roof who decided to do what the bible told him"

Sounds religious to me!

Why are the White Knights not charged?

Why are the charges not terrorism?

.

People here aren't charged with being members of ISIS. They are charged when there is evidence that they have a plan to commit a terror attack. If they are doing it on home soil that evidence has to be substantial, and include the collection/assembly of materials and weapons to facilitate the attack.

I'll say it again because for some reason you failed to understand the first perfectly clear explanation:

The charges against D Roof are for "hate crimes" because that is exactly what they were. All the evidence and sworn statements lead to an easy victory for the prosecution if they go that route. The evidence required to give him a speeding is far less, but they don't have a case for that so they are going with the "hate crime" charges, even though they require a lot more evidence. Terrorism charges might be similar in a lot of ways, but D Roof wasn't killing black people to make them scared and further some political or religious agenda. He was killing them because they were black. Hate crime 101.

[WestCanMan]

Because it wasn't the FLQ....and it didn't happen in Canada.

For your edification:

The flq weren't interested in killing people for being of a certain race. They were killing people who were trying to advance a different political agenda.

Do what we say or civilians die - terrorism 101

vs

You are a member of the wrong race, you die - hate crime 101

Those are not the same, despite the fact that they are equally heinous and involve murder. This isn't rocket science. If you are a prosecutor you pick the charge you can present to the court with the highest chance of victory. Not the one that sounds cooler, or more diabolical.

[bush_cheney2004]

For your edification:

I think we violently agree....the topic is terrorist attack in Canada, not the United States.

Edited April 3, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[WestCanMan]

I think we violently agree....the topic is terrorist attack in Canada, not the United States.

lol.

[jacee]

Furthermore, if the moderates have such a huge advantage in numbers then what would they have to fear? The crazies are just a small minority compared to moderates according to you.

In Canada ... the topic of this thread.

Yes, Donald Trump is a messiah compared to that swarm of losers, and Donald Trump is a loser by north american standards.

Trump schills for corporate gain, by inciting terrorism to sustain the war business.

With oil in the dumpster, the money is in war toys and ops now.

.

[jacee]

People here aren't charged with being members of ISIS.

You have to be ISIS to be terrorist?

You have to be Muslim to be terrorist?

.

[eyeball]

I have been wondering what effect the unexpected collapse of oil may have on extremists of Islam and the west.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/the-geopolitics-of-oil-pr_b_5981798.html

Any rational critique of Islam that doesnt include the phrase oil is the engine of the world economy at some point within the argument risks omitting the 800 pound gorilla directly linked to wars, Islamic fundamentalism, and terrorism.

...

We continually sell billions of weapons to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, even though both counties have been linked to the origins of the Islamic radicalism were fighting today in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The oil industry and the war industry created 'the war on terror'.

With oil in a tailspin, will they ramp up provocations to war ... for the profits?

Trump is certainly following that agenda.

What is sad is that ordinary soldiers and some citizens just don't comprehend how they are incited to hatred and used as pawns to make billionaires richer.

If a rich man is telling you to hate Muslims, you can bet you're putting money in his pocket if you go along with his wishes.

.

An army of 800 lb gorillas have succeeded at vandalizing the ME region to such an extent a lot of it is just outright failing. What's more disgraceful than sad is the fact this savagery against humanity was democratically enabled. The nature of a twisted conflict people like to imagine stems from Islam's deep past is actually a refection of the scum that covers the shallows of our own. It's also an echo of what's likelier to come for several generations. Tens and even hundreds of millions will likely die because of and before this is over.

There really is a lot about us that's worth loathing and its easy to grok where the 'radicalization' comes from. Doesn't mean I support what it can lead too...it just is what it is.

Edited April 3, 2016 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

An army of 800 lb gorillas have succeeded at vandalizing the ME region to such an extent a lot of it is just outright failing. What's more disgraceful than sad is the fact this savagery against humanity was democratically enabled. The nature of a twisted conflict people like to imagine stems from Islam's deep past is actually a refection of the scum that covers the shallows of our own. It's also an echo of what's likelier to come for several generations. Tens and even hundreds of millions will likely die because of and before this is over.

There really is a lot about us that's worth loathing and its easy to grok where the 'radicalization' comes from. Doesn't mean I support what it can lead too...it just is what it is.

Wow eyeball. Maybe they will even start killing Hindus. No, I guess not, they didn't have anything to do with the American interference in the middle east. Oh hold on a sec. They already killed several millions.

Maybe they will start killing Buddhists. No, I guess not, they didn't have anything to do with the American interference in the middle east. Oh hold on a sec. They already killed several millions.

I'm pretty sure you have access to a computer, and google. Why do you continue to try to find excuses for muslim genocide? Mohammed committed genocide before Columbus sailed to N.A., and it has been a muslim tradition ever since. Just because you don't give a rip about Hindu, Buddhist or Jewish genocides doesn't mean nobody else does.

The rule of thumb all over the world is where Muslims get a bit of power over people, they give them the choice to die or accept Islam.

[davidmike]

Terrorist activities include assassinations, bombings, hijackings, and kidnappings. Some states use terror against their own or enemy populations, but this is not classified as terrorism under Canadian or international law.

[Argus]

The lefty meme that Muslim violence is because of western interference or discrimination or alienation or something else - ANYTHING but due to religion, ignores the fact so many other nations, regions and communities are worse off but don't resort to indiscriminate violence.

As usual, Matthew Fisher has some pretty clear-eyed information in comparing Belgium's Muslims to its Africans. While the Muslims squat sullenly in Molonbeek and send hundreds of jihadists to fight for ISIS, the blacks party. Yes they're poor and subject to discrimination, moreso than the Muslims, but they're grateful for being allowed to come to Belgium and for the benefits of living there.

The different approaches that black Africans and Arabs have taken to life explains everything, said Angele Casongo, who had come to Matonge to get her hair done.

“The Congolese have no interest in what the Arabs are doing,” Casongo said. “We want to go out. We want to drink. We want to live. We want to be left in peace.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/matthew-fisher-brussels-africans-have-no-patience-for-narrative-that-discrimination-spawned-jihadists