DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 You just keep telling yourself that with your hands over your ears. But don't expect intelligent people to agree. . Okay...challenge accepted. Which war did the Israelis start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) Okay...challenge accepted. Which war did the Israelis start? The thread isn't about who started what, and it's been pretty much tit for tat.It's about war crimes. Israel tends to end things with a big splash of those. . Edited May 16, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 The thread isn't about who started what, and it's been pretty much tit for tat. It's about war crimes. Israel tends to end things with a big splash of those. . So...in other words...you looked and couldn't find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Can you list these war crimes you feel Israel is guilty of? Specific ones...not just vague accusations. Dates and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Can you list these war crimes you feel Israel is guilty of? Specific ones...not just vague accusations. Dates and such. The Goldstone Report from one of the brutal Gaza attacks lays down detailed information and their investigations which show that Israel committed war crimes. War crimes that Israel should be prosecuted for, but has not yet. Here are the findings where you can read the explanation after going to the link: a) Deliberate Attacks on Civilians Human Shields c) Perfidy d) Destruction of Mosques e) Attacks on Gaza Police Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 The Goldstone Report from one of the brutal Gaza attacks lays down detailed information and their investigations which show that Israel committed war crimes. War crimes that Israel should be prosecuted for, but has not yet. Here are the findings where you can read the explanation after going to the link: a) Deliberate Attacks on Civilians Human Shields c) Perfidy d) Destruction of Mosques e) Attacks on Gaza Police Link Israel didn't start any of the Gaza Wars. That was Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Israel didn't start any of the Gaza Wars. That was Hamas. Let's pretend that Israel did not start those wars (which have been proven otherwise); Your comment makes no sense and does not exonerate Israel's war crimes. You asked for a list and you got a list. Stop avoiding the truth and stop expecting others to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) Why not list some Israeli war crimes? The State of Israel's existence is a 'crime'. I've given a clear example of this before: If a community of Canadians moved into some place in the U.S. then declared their 'community' sovereign from the U.S., creates their own government with exclusion to non-Canadians, then, using their economic and political (world) power to co-opt more land in the U.S. adding this too to some strict "Canadian" Nationalism, AND take the technical interpretation of 'buying' these territories from other non-U.S. sovereigns who 'legitimize' your purchase, DOES this not constitute a disrespect for the host country they've come to, opting to 'favor' the bargains of those supposedly absentee foreign 'owners' of which even such Canadians deem "illegitimate" ? Does this not constitute an illegitimate 'coup' based on foreign forces against the inhabitants of the U.S.? Would you, if you are American accept such 'ownership' as legit? And should such foreign 'owners' demand that they've been legitimized by such foreign bodies merely due to some such technicalities deem even the acts themselves at least 'suspect'? The Jewish Nationalists did this by (1) declaring legitimate 'purchases' of property from Turkish-empire loyalists of the very empire that was deemed illegitimate through the war that dismantled it, (2) ignored that this also 'should' represent that the Palestinians too there had been ruled by the same system unfairly [are VICTIMS] and likely why they have not had prior 'legitimate' ownership via Turkey, (3) that such 'ownerships' declared were 'legitimized' all by foreign (not local sovereign) powers, and so (4) the Israelis (and those supporting their settlements from without Palestine) were also TAKING ADVANTAGE of the weakness [we call, "exploitation"] of the Palestinians there. These are just factors from the world wars. But the Jewish settlers even in the late 1800s declared their intent with clarity to create Zion as a homeland for the Jews of which Palestine was the prime target. As such, this demonstrates PREMEDITATED intent to deceive and take advantage of those Palestinians REGARDLESS at any opportunities that presented themselves. And such too has been the 'fortune' that even in the 'evil' Turkish system, they granted quite the unusual benefit of the doubt to even ALLOW such a community to exist given their clear intents to settle for a strictly Jewish State. [Note that even these early settlers from Russia had biased employment only FOR Jews to replace any local population.] "Crime" is a term that is a just(ified) term here with respect to what Israel themselves would consider a 'crime' to their OWN people; it is a 'crime' relative to the U.N. in such blatant human rights infringements that we demand be remedied in other countries. So the 'hypocrisy' rule here applies without logical error. That is, if the very people deem what a 'crime' is to their own, their only possible differentiation to define it differently upon non-Jews, non-Israelis, is to deem themselves 'superior' and all others, especially the Palestinians they are replacing, as 'inferior'. Edited May 16, 2016 by Scott Mayers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Quote: Why not defer to a political philosophy thread instead? I started that one on Nationalism, but you can begin one on something more general, if this doesn't appeal to you. This topic is about "Israeli War Crimes".....not about morality or religion or nationalism. I'm not aware of too many things I know what I know if you know what I mean Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box Religion is the smile on a dog Edie Brickell & The New Bohemians This is your presumptuous error. (that you assume this is 'not about morality religion or nationalism') You can't impose some value-laden word, such as 'crime' without interpreting its moral/ethical value AND to whom this term belongs. You cannot presume some 'legal' definition of the Israeli meaning of "crime", for instance, since what is 'legal' by a government that CREATES them lacks substance elsewhere unless it IS their sovereignty. This IS how Israel treats all of Palestine which only proves more that since they CREATE laws upon those lands that are supposedly not theirs, they have no justification for imposing such rules UNLESS they are desiring to have their cake and eat it too. Israel overpowers the West Bank and 'illegitimately' establishes (STEALS) lands that is NOT theirs, as if they DO OWN them, but discriminate against such "Palestinian" populations by not even allowing them to be a function of Israeli government, and so is TOTALITARIAN. These are "crimes" too. Now to deem rebellion of these Palestinians NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO as "terrorism" only adds another abused term to the dialogue as this too demonstrates hypocrisy of those they simply favor, namely Zionist Jews with token non-Jews to feign some sense of non-cultural bias without certain clarity. To me as is to many others, the vast POWER of the Israeli state acts with terror against Muslims everywhere and the only reason why Muslims against Jews there exist and use apparently 'terroristic' methods is due to their unequal FORCE to an extreme by the Israelis over them. Ironically, the Goliath now IS Israel, and the support it gets from our Western biased world greedy for oil and to RELIGIOUS biases of the Judao-Christian coalition to command the Middle East. Take David's 'clever' desperation to use a sling shot as a weapon against the Goliath actually demonstrates that Israel too from its past legitimized the very types of acts of desperation they NOW deem as "terrorism". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) This is your presumptuous error. (that you assume this is 'not about morality religion or nationalism') You can't impose some value-laden word, such as 'crime' without interpreting its moral/ethical value AND to whom this term belongs. Yes I can...it's in the OP topic...that's why I put it in quotes. The topic is "war crimes", not your different interests or agenda. Israel does not attack Muslims everywhere....it does not send the IDF across great oceans to "kill Muslims" like Canada or the United States. Edited May 16, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Yes I can...it's in the OP topic...that's why I put it in quotes. The topic is "war crimes", not your different interests or agenda. Israel does not attack Muslims everywhere....it does not send the IDF across great oceans to "kill Muslims" like Canada or the United States. You're playing a child's game here. Parent: "Come 'here', now! " Child: "I AM 'here' " (points to where he's standing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Israel didn't start any of the Gaza Wars. That was Hamas.Irrelevant.The thread is about Israel's war crimes. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Let's pretend that Israel did not start those wars (which have been proven otherwise); Your comment makes no sense and does not exonerate Israel's war crimes. You asked for a list and you got a list. Stop avoiding the truth and stop expecting others to. Israel still didn't start any of the Gaza Wars. That was Hamas....who you support I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Irrelevant. The thread is about Israel's war crimes. . To which I said: Israel's greatest war crime is WINNING the wars the Arabs started. I stand by that. If Israel was destroyed, you wouldn't be in tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 The State of Israel's existence is a 'crime'. If that was a 'crime', then Britain and the !league of Nations were complicit in it too. I think you're out of line with this, and distracting from the real topic of this thread, which is Israel's aggression, oppression and disproportionate attacks in the West Bank and Gaza in recent years. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) If that was a 'crime', then Britain and the !league of Nations were complicit in it too. I think you're out of line with this, and distracting from the real topic of this thread, which is Israel's aggression, oppression and disproportionate attacks in the West Bank and Gaza in recent years. . The trouble is then you get these "deniers" who lie at length to even disprove the existence of palestinians.... Edited May 16, 2016 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) If that was a 'crime', then Britain and the !league of Nations were complicit in it too. I think you're out of line with this, and distracting from the real topic of this thread, which is Israel's aggression, oppression and disproportionate attacks in the West Bank and Gaza in recent years. . Actually, they were, if you had paid attention. The concern was similar to what is now happening with the influx of refuges from the Middle East now. The British relented as no country elsewhere wanted to take on the extra populations since they've just exhausted themselves of resources in the war. The Jews leaving German occupied areas COULD have attempted to reclaim lands there too. I also outlined the actual 'crimes' with respect to all parties. There is a clear confusion between words and no one is willing to refer to definitions. You can't speak of 'facts' until you begin with definitions. I explained this in more context if you bothered to read. I'm not only not out of line, but if this thread continues this way, its not going to accomplish anything more than bickering which believes which is 'fact' while simultaneously missing the point of the definitions. (or are you guys just sock puppetting feigned opposing roles here?) Edited May 16, 2016 by Scott Mayers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 The trouble is then you get these "deniers" who lie at length to even disprove the existence if palestinians.... Palestinians were the invention of the Grand Mufti who wished to have his own country free of Jews. The Hashemites of Jordan claimed control over al-Aqsa being relatives of Muhammad. The Mufti also claimed to be related to Muhammad and also wanted control over the money and power control of al-Aqsa produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 If that was a 'crime', then Britain and the !league of Nations were complicit in it too. I think you're out of line with this, and distracting from the real topic of this thread, which is Israel's aggression, oppression and disproportionate attacks in the West Bank and Gaza in recent years. . Zionist bought their land. Got a problem with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) To which I said: Israel's greatest war crime is WINNING the wars the Arabs started. The question would be how they are 'won'. The bombardment of Gaza was a war crime. I stand by that. If Israel was destroyed, you wouldn't be in tears.Don't tell us how we 'would' feel. The bombardment of Gaza has turned the tide of world opinion against Israel. The aggression, oppression and disproportionality of attacks in the West Bank and Gaza are Israel's choices, and Israel will live with the consequences of it's own actions. It would be very sad to see Israel destroy itself by being a rogue nation that doesn't contain itself within its legal borders and commits repeated expansionist war crimes. But that's Israel's choice. And the rest of the world is free to respond as it sees fit. Israel does not get a free pass to commit atrocities against Palestinians because its people were subjected to atrocities by Germans. An analogy: A personality disordered person who constantly seeks sympathy and $upport by alleging that others are 'abusing' her may in fact have become disordered because of prior abuse. However, that isn't a free pass to abuse others, nor to holler false allegations of 'abuse' every time she doesn't 'get her way'. Israel has used up its supply of sympathy and has to operate under international laws like the rest of us, or be considered a rogue nation and treated as such. . Edited May 16, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Zionist bought their land. Got a problem with that? From whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 No opinion of your terrorist friends has changed. They are no better than ISIS. But if you wish to support such people, I can't stop you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) From whom? The Sultan...you know...the guy who owned all the land. Edited May 16, 2016 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) Palestinians were the invention of the Grand Mufti who wished to have his own country free of Jews. The Hashemites of Jordan claimed control over al-Aqsa being relatives of Muhammad. The Mufti also claimed to be related to Muhammad and also wanted control over the money and power control of al-Aqsa produced. This is for those who still deny Palestine ever existed..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." Edited May 16, 2016 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 No opinion of your terrorist friends has changed. They are no better than ISIS. But if you wish to support such people, I can't stop you. Jeez and I thought it was gonna be hard for you to admit that you side with terrorists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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