Still Going to Buy the F-35, Really?

[bush_cheney2004]

That's maybe why the pilots don't really want to fly this single engine hunk a junk.

The 20 injured crew from Protecteur's engine fire didn't have that luxury. Canada didn't want to spend the money for a modern ship.

[Argus]

That's maybe why the pilots don't really want to fly this single engine hunk a junk.

Cite?

[rotary]

Cite?

Here's one of many.

http://www.businessinsider.com/pilots-turn-f35-jet-off-and-on-again-to-fix-its-latest-radar-glitch-2016-3

[Hoser360]

Please get back to the basics! It's not a proven air craft by any measure. Canada does not need to invest in this kind of tech. We need a resonsonably priced air craft that can meet our roll in NATO and the latest F-18 can do that. I mean who are we expecting to be fighting!? If it's the Russians than you can kiss the F-35 good by. The enemy today doesn't have a real army or air force, their a bunch of fucked up ideologist likely born and bread from the very same corporate interests who want you to spend tax dollars on the military that we don't need. Wake up.

[Argus]

Here's one of many.

http://www.businessinsider.com/pilots-turn-f35-jet-off-and-on-again-to-fix-its-latest-radar-glitch-2016-3

That cite does not support your statement in any way.

[Argus]

Please get back to the basics! It's not a proven air craft by any measure. Canada does not need to invest in this kind of tech. We need a resonsonably priced air craft that can meet our roll in NATO and the latest F-18 can do that.

For ten years or so before its obsolete. Then what? Buy another plane?

You also fundamentally misunderstand what NATO is all about. Granted Canada's 60 planes can't stand off Russia. That's why it joins together with a bunch of other countries so that the overall size of NATO air power will be a considerably higher deterrent.

[Derek 2.0]

That's an excellent point because we don't even know if the F-35 will satisfy the needs of the future. We don't even know if military aircraft will have pilots in 40 years.

I would ditch the one size fits all idea, and buy 20 armed Reapers at a cost of 16 million per plane.That platform would be perfect for routine patrols and surveillance over our own territory (which is 95% of what our air-force does), and can be operated at a fraction of the cost per hour of flight time. They are also useful for the new kind of asymmetric conflicts we are likely to see in the future. They don't have stealth but who cares... If you lose one its just 15-20 million and nobody dies.

I don't know where you're getting ~$16 million per UAV, for a Reaper like UCAV........Predator/Reaper class UAVs, with payloads, sensor packages and support/control infrastructure cost as much as modern manned fighter.........which is why said Canadian UAV program (JUSTAS), which sought less than a dozen UCAVs for an estimated ~$3.5 billion.

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None the less, no current or near term UCAVs can fully replace all the roles of manned fighters, nor are they intended too. In Canada's case, JUSTAS was intended to fill a gap left by the retirement, without replacement, of lighter manned reconnaissance aircraft (Kiowas and Trackers) and not the Hornet fleet.

[Derek 2.0]

I would have to do a bunch of research to have my own opinion on whether its feasible or not, but I read quotes today from a top military official that says armed drones would be good for recon and patrols dfdfand that the military wants them.

You're comparing apples to oranges though, as the RCAF's planned UAV program isn't intended to meet our NORAD requirements.

[Derek 2.0]

I think we know what the direction will be in the future. Even today the US is training people to operate drones than any other weapons system.

Ahh no, the USAF (not including Reserves, Air National Guard etc) has just under 13000 pilots, versus under 1000 qualified Predator/Reaper pilots and ~200 Global Hawk pilots.....even still, the UAV pilot figures are due to a typical ~30 hour mission flown by 2-4 UAVs will see numerous crew changes.

As for speed that't not too big of a concern. These are recon missions not combat missions, and they will only encounter craft that have enough range to reach our airspace. So far this has almost exclusively been Russian bombers like the TU-95. And if we ever DO have to fire on another craft it will be the speed of the missiles that matter, not the speed of a drone.

You're right, speed doesn't mater for the role in which they are sought........which has nothing to do with NORAD.

And the speed of said aircraft does mater, to say nothing of carrying a fire control radar.......a slow UAV can't intercept an aircraft that cruises over four times its maximum speed.......of course, said UAVs were never intended to fill said roles so the point is moot.

Anyways, your claim that drones could "never be used for patrols" is contrary to what our military says...

They never suggested they could be used for our NORAD mission.

[Derek 2.0]

Will have to wait, because like the F-35, it is not going to happen for Canada.

I wouldn't be so sure....with the Liberal's punt into the next mandate, the F-35 is the only Western aircraft that will be guaranteed to be in production.

[Wilber]

Our dismal dollar may have as much to do with when and what we buy as anything.

[bush_cheney2004]

I wouldn't be so sure....with the Liberal's punt into the next mandate, the F-35 is the only Western aircraft that will be guaranteed to be in production.

Again, I don't think it matters at this point...the "file" is dead. The Liberal reset to define requirements and solicit bids is just more of the same game.

Even as a JSF Tier 3 supply chain partner, a majority of Canadians do not want to procure replacement strike fighters of any kind. More money is happily spent on the CBC and sexual harassment.

This game was only fun when/if the F-35A was a real possibility. Game Over (for now).

[Smallc]

Our dismal dollar may have as much to do with when and what we buy as anything.

Since January, the Canadian dollar has been the strongest currency in the western world.

[Derek 2.0]

Our dismal dollar may have as much to do with when and what we buy as anything.

That and our deficit........I didn't expect much when they were only going to run $10 billion dollar deficits and hadn't budgeted new money for fighters, ships etc.

[Derek 2.0]

Again, I don't think it matters at this point...the "file" is dead. The Liberal reset to define requirements and solicit bids is just more of the same game.

Exactly, I said as much even before the election..........I think FWSAR will be a miracle inside this mandate.

[Smallc]

That and our deficit........I didn't expect much when they were only going to run $10 billion dollar deficits and hadn't budgeted new money for fighters, ships etc.

Uhhh, how did they re-profile money that wasn't budgeted?

[Smallc]

Exactly, I said as much even before the election..........I think FWSAR will be a miracle inside this mandate.

A miracle that didn't happen for the Conservatives. FWSAR may or many not happen (though I lean towards may). If it doesn't, it's just a continuation of failed CF procurement.

[waldo]

Again, I don't think it matters at this point...the "file" is dead. The Liberal reset to define requirements and solicit bids is just more of the same game.

Even as a JSF Tier 3 supply chain partner, a majority of Canadians do not want to procure replacement strike fighters of any kind. More money is happily spent on the CBC and sexual harassment.

This game was only fun when/if the F-35A was a real possibility. Game Over (for now).

why not step-up and showcase just how many foreign nations have purchased the F-35... include the number purchased. My latest review/understanding has 3 of the 8 JSF partner nations purchasing Zeeero planes... while the other 5 have purchased a grand total of... count em... 30 planes. Yowzer!

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[Derek 2.0]

Uhhh, how did they re-profile money that wasn't budgeted?

Was the money "re-profiled" enough to procure both big ticketed items?

[bush_cheney2004]

.... If it doesn't, it's just a continuation of failed CF procurement.

Right...it's just another chapter in a long storybook of failed procurements. Why would this one be any different ?

The F-35 JSF program continues....more are being built in Fort Worth, Texas.

[Derek 2.0]

A miracle that didn't happen for the Conservatives. FWSAR may or many not happen (though I lean towards may). If it doesn't, it's just a continuation of failed CF procurement.

Or a miracle that didn't happen for the Liberals before them.......none the less, yet again, you lack factual context.......somehow the previous Government had no qualms purchasing other large multi-engine aircraft on time and on budget.

What is telling, is that one of the contenders of the program (Lockheed) has withdrawn from the program, and is speculated to be a reaction to this new Government's mixed messages on procurement.............If industry giants are leaving a simplistic program like FWSAR, it doesn't bode well for vastly more complex and costly programs.

[Derek 2.0]

... count em... 30 planes. Yowzer!

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To date, more aircraft being flown by foreign nations (versus parent nations) then Super Hornets, Gripen NGs and Rafales.........Yowzer indeed

[waldo]

Right...it's just another chapter in a long storybook of failed procurements. Why would this one be any different ?

The F-35 JSF program continues....more are being built in Fort Worth, Texas.

again, Canada is a piker-nation when compared to the litany of failed U.S. military procurement... and yet you continue to fixate on Canada's procurement - wassup with that, hey!

all those you claim being built... please provide the numbers with accompanying association to JSF partner nation contracted purchases. Given your steady-stream of related claims, surely you must have those numbers handy. Surely!

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[waldo]

To date, more aircraft being flown by foreign nations (versus parent nations) then Super Hornets, Gripen NGs and Rafales.........Yowzer indeed

great - thanks for biting! As appropriate, let's have you detail those F-35 builds and attach them to either the related LRIP funding... or JSF partner nation contractual purchases. And while you're doing that, how about comparing those numbers to past LockMart propaganda projections... that's always good for needed perspective on the failure of the JSF F-35, yes?

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[Derek 2.0]

great - thanks for biting! As appropriate, let's have you detail those F-35 builds and attach them to either the related LRIP funding... or JSF partner nation contractual purchases. And while you're doing that, how about comparing those numbers to past LockMart propaganda projections... that's always good for needed perspective on the failure of the JSF F-35, yes?

.

I will gladly reciprocate once you've provided the like information for the "alternatives" (Super Hornet, Gripen NG, Rafale, Eurofighter)...........for perspective sake of course, likewise a list of international competitions that included the F-35 and any number of cited "alternatives", which resulted in the F-35 losing to any of the aforementioned aircraft............

One would think, if the F-35 is such a failure as you suggest, the cited "alternatives" would be far worse........what with not a single one yet to beat the F-35 in a procurement competition