Pipeline Politics - Is Canada the only "sucker" Nation?

[69cat]

There is no limit that the taxpayer is willing to spend to meet the goals necessary it seems. Yes, we may very well need double wall pipe along the entire stretch just to make sure the taxpayer can sleep at night. Reading about the project in Manitoba to build Bipole 3 would indicate Manitoba residents take their protection of trees quite seriously.

If taxpayers demand double or tripple wall pipe then i expect our government will ensure it is done so with the necessary contribution of tax payer money to see it done. That is how we increase GDP, just make everything more expensive. And if you dont then the answer must be that you are simply being owned by big business.

Personally i am fine with a single wall pipe and beleive that monitoring will keep improving as years go by. But it seems the taxpayer is an endless source of wealth and many things these days are packaged as having the financial cost irrelevant to the greater good.

[mowich]

Today the Liberal government of Canada approved Line 3 and Kinder Morgan but said no to Northern Gateway pipelines.  I fully support all these decisions.  This is good for ALL Canadians. 

[Smallc]

Who was it that said something about no pipelines?

[Derek 2.0]

24 minutes ago, mowich said:

This is good for ALL Canadians.

Sure....its really good for the Trudeau Liberals.......in 2019, they need not waste time and resources campaigning in British Columbia 

 

The protests have already started in Greater Vancouver....

[Derek 2.0]

3 minutes ago, Smallc said:

Who was it that said something about no pipelines?

 

BC First Nations bands, Lizzy May, University students that can walk down Burnaby Mt to the Kinder Morgan terminus, the Mayors of Vancouver, Burnaby and Victoria, the leaders of the BC NDP and Green parties and even Premier Clark is distancing her government from Trudeau (everyone expected him to hold off approving it until after the BC election)........and of course, upwards of 2/3rds of British Columbians, including 75% of lower mainland residents, that reside in ridings the Federal Liberals won't have a hope in hell in now in 2019.  

[bush_cheney2004]

Elizabeth May is not pleased...

 

Quote

“Of course I’ll go to jail. I’ll block pipelines, I’ll stand shoulder-to-shoulder with First Nations. This is not an issue you compromise on,” said May, a Vancouver Island MP and longstanding voice among Canadian environmentalists.

“We are not giving up. This is a terrible blow and a betrayal. But we do not give up.”

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/elizabeth-may-i-ll-go-to-jail-to-stop-trans-mountain-pipeline-1.3182604

 

[Smallc]

Good for her?

[BC_chick]

21 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

 

BC First Nations bands, Lizzy May, University students that can walk down Burnaby Mt to the Kinder Morgan terminus, the Mayors of Vancouver, Burnaby and Victoria, the leaders of the BC NDP and Green parties and even Premier Clark is distancing her government from Trudeau (everyone expected him to hold off approving it until after the BC election)........and of course, upwards of 2/3rds of British Columbians, including 75% of lower mainland residents, that reside in ridings the Federal Liberals won't have a hope in hell in now in 2019.  

Yeah this is not gonna fly well for them here at all. I hope it gets Christy Clark kicked out too. 

NDP should also cut ties with Notley.  (ETA - that part is wishful thinking I know it can't happen)

This was a bad day for Canada. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by BC_chick

[Derek 2.0]

1 minute ago, BC_chick said:

Yeah this is not gonna fly well for them here at all. I hope it gets Christy Clark kicked out too. 

NDP should also cut ties with Notley. 

This was a bad day for Canada. 

 

I'm not sure about Clark, I think she will get back in, but I think her Government, like everyone else out here, weren't expecting the Kinder Morgan approval until after the Provincial election........Notely is in Ottawa, Clark isn't......

[msj]

Blah blah blah plenty of reasons to think Canadians are willing to find a balance between pipelines, carbon taxes and public policy: http://abacusdata.ca/climate-carbon-and-pipelines-a-path-to-consensus/

Trudeau needs to be the carbon tax in gear and everything will be fine. Much ado about nothing. 

 

[TimG]

37 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

This was a bad day for Canada. 

On the contrary. It was a great day for Canada. For the first time the Trudeau government stood up to the incessant NIMBYs that live comfortably only because of past developments but now want to block any future developments. He combined it with a carbon tax that includes Alberta and billions for spill response. If the NIMBYs in Vancouver actually cared about something other than their own egos they would put effort into ensuring that the spill response teams are put in place with the proper training an equipment. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by TimG

[Derek 2.0]

And a more specific, recent, poll of BC residents:

 

Quote

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau could lose 31 per cent of B.C. voters who supported him in 2015 if he approves the controversial Kinder Morgan pipeline project, a new poll commissioned by an B.C. NGO opposed to the project shows.

And in tight three way races in Greater Vancouver that would result in the Tories and NDP clawing back the seats they lost to the Liberals......furthermore:

Quote

 

“If they think this is something that will blow over by the 2019 election, they are grossly underestimating British Columbians,” she said.

 

The poll found that 74 per cent of British Columbians are less likely to support oil tanker traffic when they consider the potential effect on the 80-odd orca whales that live off the south coast.

 

“When you talk about the 400 oil tankers that are going to be on the coast if this pipeline is approved, then you start to realize just how much opposition there is,” she said.

 

The poll also found that 62 per cent of British Columbians agree that approving Kinder Morgan’s Trans Mountain pipeline expansion would contradict Trudeau’s campaign promises to take action on the climate change file and develop a new relationship with First Nations.

 

 

On the local News Radio station they had on this afternoon the Victoria Mayor and someone from the Sierra Club, they both submit that the huge increase in tanker traffic will drive away the local Juan de Fuca Orca pod.......I don't know if its true or not, but that won't mater for the anti pipeline protesters.........for the life of me, I've no idea why he would approve it now, not only does it put his buddy Premier Clark in a tough spot (Trudeau's rich Chinese friends also donate to the BC Liberals), but the whole Standing Rock protest is in the forefront right now........the professional protesters are going to transplant an American issue into Canada just like they did to Harper......the bitumen is about to hit the fan .........Kinder Morgan, right or wrong, will be to Trudeau what Northern Gateway was to Harper...

 

As for BC Liberal MPs:

Quote

 

Two Liberal MPs representing B.C. ridings have said their government doesn’t have the “social license” to approve the project, the Vancouver Sun reported.

Earlier this month, Coquitlam-Port Coquitlam MP Ron McKinnon sent a letter to Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr urging him not to approve the project, the Sun reported.

Terry Beech, the Liberal MP for Burnaby North-Seymour, said this summer that his community doesn’t grant permission for the project to move forward, the Sun reported.

“In the coming days, we’ll be looking for more Liberal MPs in B.C. to follow Terry Beech and Ron McKinnon’s lead, speaking out on behalf of constituents who oppose this project,” said Harrison

 

 

Beech, is the Liberal MP that represents the riding that has the Kinder Morgan facility in.........and I'll bet if he doesn't cross the floor to the NDP, the NDP take the riding back.

 

[Guest]

Maybe I'll vote for Mr. Trudeau now, to make up for one of those BC people who have vowed to walk to work from now on. He's gone up a little in my estimation. 

 

[The_Squid]

Trudeau does something for industry within a year that Harper couldn't do in a decade.  

[msj]

1 minute ago, The_Squid said:

Trudeau does something for industry within a year that Harper couldn't do in a decade.  

I love the conservative response though: it ain't built yet, it's going to take years to build so it isn't going to be built at all....

Well, maybe that will be the case but it wasn't going to be built without approval from cabinet in the first place and Trudeau may have found a reasonable compromise to achieve pipelines through a carbon tax. 

But that is probably why it is so unpalatable to conservatives. They hate a carbon tax even if that's what it will take to get some pipelines going. 

And I notice a certain someone in this thread wants Trudeau to fail with the environmentalists help as he thinks this will somehow lead to an embrace of a conservative run government with endless pipelines. 

It would be funny if Trudeau fails and it leads to an embrace of an NDP government. Poetic justice. 

[Smallc]

Pretty sure the carbon tax agreement will come next week now.

[The_Squid]

27 minutes ago, msj said:

I love the conservative response though: it ain't built yet, it's going to take years to build so it isn't going to be built at all....

Well, maybe that will be the case but it wasn't going to be built without approval from cabinet in the first place and Trudeau may have found a reasonable compromise to achieve pipelines through a carbon tax. 

But that is probably why it is so unpalatable to conservatives. They hate a carbon tax even if that's what it will take to get some pipelines going. 

And I notice a certain someone in this thread wants Trudeau to fail with the environmentalists help as he thinks this will somehow lead to an embrace of a conservative run government with endless pipelines. 

It would be funny if Trudeau fails and it leads to an embrace of an NDP government. Poetic justice. 

 

Some people here (see above) are partisan hacks.  Even when they like the policies of the government, they hope for failure.  

[BC_chick]

43 minutes ago, The_Squid said:

Trudeau does something for industry within a year that Harper couldn't do in a decade.  

Maybe because so many people giving Trideau a free pass right now would have been furious if Harper had accomplished such an 'achievement'. 

[The_Squid]

A carbon tax and pipelines to get product to market in much safer ways than Northern Gateway.  Sounds fine to me.  And I never voted for him.

[Derek 2.0]

47 minutes ago, The_Squid said:

Trudeau does something for industry within a year that Harper couldn't do in a decade.

 

39 minutes ago, msj said:

I love the conservative response though: it ain't built yet, it's going to take years to build so it isn't going to be built at all....

 

Hubris.............The Province of British Columbia has yet to complete its environmental assessment  

[Derek 2.0]

5 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

Maybe because so many people giving Trideau a free pass right now would have been furious if Harper had accomplished such an 'achievement'. 

 

Trudeau's approval on Keystone puts him now in the same position Harper was at with Northern Gateway........the bullseye for every environmental group under the Sun to delay and sway public opinion.......still early for a victory lap........and if Clark gets booted in Spring its game over.

[?Impact]

1 minute ago, Derek 2.0 said:

Hubris.............The Province of British Columbia has yet to complete its environmental assessment  

Line 3 is Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba

Yes Kinder Morgan needs to complete BC environmental assessment, but from what I understand that is progressing and should soon be finished. 

[poochy]

4 hours ago, Smallc said:

Who was it that said something about no pipelines?

Has it been built yet?  They approved two, one was a formality so doesn't count, and the other, we will see.  Call me when they approve something difficult that doesnt run through a rain forest in perfect BC, like energy east.  Of course as for the one they did approve, there is already a pipeline there!  They just want to double it up, so the least controversial and easiest of the controversial pipelines, wow, so impressed.

Edited November 30, 2016 by poochy

[Derek 2.0]

1 minute ago, ?Impact said:

Line 3 is Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba

So what? Line 3 doesn't run through Greater Vancouver.......tis a slightly different political landscape.

 

2 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Yes Kinder Morgan needs to complete BC environmental assessment, but from what I understand that is progressing and should soon be finished. 

 

Here in BC, we're months away from an election, which could result in an NDP government or a Minority (NDP or Liberal) government with the Greens holding the balance of power......If Clark doesn't return with a majority, the pipeline is dead........and thats forgetting various protests and legal challenges that will bog down Kinder Morgan if it gets Provincial support.

 

Unless the BC NDP manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again, Kinder Morgan, lack of the promised LNG development and the Site C dam should be enough to finish off Clark.

[BC_chick]

7 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

 

Trudeau's approval on Keystone puts him now in the same position Harper was at with Northern Gateway........the bullseye for every environmental group under the Sun to delay and sway public opinion.......still early for a victory lap........and if Clark gets booted in Spring its game over.

 If anyone is pissed about it they're not gonna jump to CPC... are you stoked because a divided left is the only hope in hell there is for your guys?