Smallc Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 He got the 08 financial meltdown two years into his mandate and the slowing global economy at the end of it. We'll see how the new miracle man does with the current situation. I already said it wasn't his fault. It's just unlikely that history will be kind as a result.
Big Guy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Stephen Harper had a very difficult caucus. When he led the amalgamation of the far right with the right, he brought some real unstable whahoos with him. He knew that if given a free rein, they would not only embarrass his government but would label it so badly it would soon be defeated. He had to muzzle those folks until he got rid of them but in doing that he had to establish a management style that muzzled all - including some very good parliamentarians. There were a few like Baird and Flaherty who were given more freedom and an asset to the country and a few like Prentice and Rajotte who jumped ship. It was unfortunate for Canada that some of these talented Progressive Conservatives were not given more autonomy and the younger members more of an opportunity to learn governance. Perhaps this prolonged leadership race will give time for those who were muzzled in the past to show their strengths. Personally, I feel it is far too early to evaluate the Harper legacy. The results of his foreign policy will take time to show results as will his more important pieces of legislation - the ones that are not overturned by the current Liberals. Edited January 22, 2016 by Big Guy Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Wilber Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 I already said it wasn't his fault. It's just unlikely that history will be kind as a result. History has a habit of looking at things from a viewpoint that is much less dominated by partisanship. "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Smallc Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 History has a habit of looking at things from a viewpoint that is much less dominated by partisanship. I don't fault Harper for what happens. I supported him for most of his time. Still, I don't see much of a rosy picture for people to paint.
ReeferMadness Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) He got the 08 financial meltdown two years into his mandate and the slowing global economy at the end of it. We'll see how the new miracle man does with the current situation. Funny. Miracle man is doing things that could be done in any economy. Legalize marijuana. Electoral reform. Dialogue with provinces. Soliciting input from citizens. Demon man squandered his years picking divisive issues that have almost no positive impact on anyone. Gun registry. C-51. C-36. Making sure communities didn't try to practice harm reduction strategies. Watching the supreme court turf his legislation. What a waste of 9 years. Edited January 22, 2016 by ReeferMadness Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
overthere Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 Harper managed to steer the country through a global recession. He was deft enough that other countries looked to him for advice, or have we forgotten that already? I fully expect Trudeau to create a recession, he has the tools and seems to have the will/intent. Sorry, I meant he has the resourcefulness. Science too hard for you? Try religion!
Smallc Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 Did other counties really look to him for advice? He did fine, but I think that's pure exaggeration.
Argus Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 Bribing a senator, muzzling scientists, cancelling the census and ignoring scientific advice are enough for history to look very badly upon the Harper legacy. It won't be a pretty story. Chump change. Small beans. Inconsequential nothings of no consequence. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 I disagree... I think Harper will be used as an example of how not to run a government for a long, long time. His clashes with the SCC will be taught in schools to show how not to craft legislation. His deceit and control of the Senate has already led to changes to how the Senate operates, at least with the current government. He won't be forgotten... but the examples will all be what not to do... Most of the legislation which was overruled wasn't his anyway, and apparently previous governments had the same problems with the SC. Harper simply didn't hide his unhappiness as much as previous governments. The Senate was no different under his rule than it was under all the previous governments. Nothing done by Duffy et all was any different than what was done ten, twenty, fifty or a hundred years ago. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 Those are some of the reasons he is our lowest ranked PM in 50 years, but I suspect most will forget about his pandering to big oil in time. Then, since he has no legacy of accomplishments Harper will be forgotten. Pandering to big oil? You mean he let them operate and produce tens of billions in tax dollars for the government, and tens of thousands of jobs for people? That bastard! "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 Miracle man is doing things that could be done in any economy. Legalize marijuana. Electoral reform. Dialogue with provinces. Soliciting input from citizens. So... he's talking? So? Demon man squandered his years picking divisive issues that have almost no positive impact on anyone. Gun registry. C-51. C-36. Making sure communities didn't try to practice harm reduction strategies. Watching the supreme court turf his legislation. What a waste of 9 years. Most of what he did made sense. Three quarters of the legislation overruled by the SC was Liberal legislation from previous governments. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Pandering to big oil? You mean he let them operate and produce tens of billions in tax dollars for the government, and tens of thousands of jobs for people? That bastard! Ended, and added cabinet minister overrides for required environmental assessments to pave the way for pipelines, ended water testing so data would not be able to conclusively show oil based water pollution, killed environmental and pollution based r&d, yet had government pickup the tab for oil shipping specific required tests, continued subsidies for an already profitable and harmful industry, spent millions to attack environmental charities, muzzled scientists, burned books (literally) and hid data....all while clean energy actually employs more people than the tarsands. What a great guy, visionary and leader he was. The man was a ridiculous ideologue whose anger and spite trumped all reason, but that will be forgotten. All that will be remembered will be his accomplishments which are none. Edited January 23, 2016 by Guest
Argus Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Ended, and added cabinet minister overrides for required environmental assessments to pave the way for pipelines, Really? Wow! Shocker! Can you list all the big pipeline projects which sailed through without any environmental assessments? ended water testing so data would not be able to conclusively show oil based water pollution, killed environmental and pollution based r&d, Turned environmental enforcement back over to the province, where it is supposed to be, you mean? continued subsidies for an already profitable and harmful industry, Can you name me a single major industry which doesn't get subsidies? spent millions to attack environmental charities, Which were attacking him, most of them funded by Americans. muzzled scientists, As did Chretien. As did every other previous government. all while clean energy actually employs more people than the tarsands. Then the oil sands or all oil? Cite please. What a great guy, visionary and leader he was. He did okay. He wasn't my favorite, and I didn't like some of what he did, but I'm not blinded by ideological zealotry like so many of his detractors. The man was a ridiculous ideologue whose anger and spite trumped all reason, I can remember Chretien spitting mad. I can't remember Harper ever raising his voice or looking angry. I'm afraid that anger and spite were all in your head. Edited January 23, 2016 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Wilber Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 I don't fault Harper for what happens. I supported him for most of his time. Still, I don't see much of a rosy picture for people to paint. In the present hyper partisan environment, I don't expect any objectivity. The way this forum has gone is proof of that. "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 I can remember Chretien spitting mad. I can't remember Harper ever raising his voice or looking angry. I'm afraid that anger and spite were all in your head. Good point, I don't recall Harper ever trying to strangle a protester. "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
TimG Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 while clean energy actually employs more people than the tarsands.Only if you count recycling collectors as "clean energy workers" (which means your claim is nonsense).
The_Squid Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Good point, I don't recall Harper ever trying to strangle a protester. His private security detail made sure he never had to!
Wilber Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 His private security detail made sure he never had to! Ah, that must be it. Except that Chretien grabbed the protester, not the other way around. The RCMP saw no breach of security and Chretien himself called it the Shawinigan handshake. "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
The_Squid Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 P Ah, that must be it. Except that Chretien grabbed the protester, not the other way around. The RCMP saw no breach of security and Chretien himself called it the Shawinigan handshake. Chrétien did a lot of crappy things, but tossing aside the nut screaming in his face a few inches away was not one of them!
On Guard for Thee Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 So... he's talking? So? Most of what he did made sense. Three quarters of the legislation overruled by the SC was Liberal legislation from previous governments. I'd like to see you cite that malarcky.
On Guard for Thee Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Chump change. Small beans. Inconsequential nothings of no consequence. I reckon most Canadians would disagree with most of that. Fot instance when the taxpayers funds science and the likes of Harper cover it up we feel ripped off. B'bye Harper.
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 I'd like to see you cite that malarcky. Yeah, me too.
Hal 9000 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 P Chrétien did a lot of crappy things, but tossing aside the nut screaming in his face a few inches away was not one of them! I loved that actually! Cretien, however, was very indignant whenever anyone questioned him - much more than Harper The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
On Guard for Thee Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 So... he's talking? So? Most of what he did made sense. Three quarters of the legislation overruled by the SC was Liberal legislation from previous governments. Here's a bit of a scorecard to ste you straight. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/scoc-harper-gov-scorecard-741324
On Guard for Thee Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 I loved that actually! Cretien, however, was very indignant whenever anyone questioned him - much more than Harper The fact you seem to be missing is that Harper for the most part, didn't take questions. Except of course when he had to in QP, and then Mulcair mostly made him look a fool. Remember the senate scandal, "just show us the cheque"etcetera. I'll miss those days in a way, it was fun watching Harper embarrass himself with rehearsed talking points that had no point.
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