A Trust That is Now Broken

Wilber · January 22, 2016

Actual they don't have high hours......the average 737 in any given airline has equal/greater hours then the current B-52 fleet. Furthermore, the "H" was (re)designed for low level flight (Unlike the previous B-52s), but the USAF altered their low level strike doctrine in the later 80s and early 90s to high level stand-off missions, which extended their usage even further........

Their continued use is an example of good public policy, since they can still perform their required missions, and have outlived two of their planned replacements, and will likely outlive the B-1 and possibly the B-2.

The average 737 probably has four times as many take off and landings per 1000 flight hours than a B-52. Some of them, a lot more than that.

Derek 2.0 · January 22, 2016

It's the same disease....wishy washy, aimless policies subject to change at political whim. Trust is more than just the will, but also the means to do something in concert with other allies without so many limitations and excuses.

Exactly, the Liberals current muddled policy on combating ISIS is merely a reflection of politics, in that they opposed the combat mission when in opposition in hopes of gaining support from NDP backers, and continued on with it through the election..........now they own it and have painted themselves into a corner.

Derek 2.0 · January 22, 2016

The average 737 probably has four times as many take off and landings per 1000 flight hours than a B-52. Some of them, a lot more than that.

Without a doubt, hence using the current B-52 service life as political justification for bad public policy is unfounded.........or Chretien using the example of Sea Kings in US service to cover his own backside...........

One contrast between Chretien and Trudeau though, is that Trudeau has yet to justify his policies towards combating radical Islam.........he won't even lie to us

GostHacked · January 22, 2016

Trudeau does not have a real say in the foreign policy unless it matches those of the military big wigs. If you ask some around here, in only 3 short months Trudeau has managed to totally wreck the Canadian economy and make us look like idiots on the world stage. Since Harper is gone, we can absolve him of any blame and put it all on Trudeau. Why can't Trudeau get his crap together? Total failure already.

bush_cheney2004 · January 22, 2016

...One contrast between Chretien and Trudeau though, is that Trudeau has yet to justify his policies towards combating radical Islam.........he won't even lie to us

True....Chretien was much better at this game. Trudeau is a rookie PM, and considered untrustworthy and unpredictable until he proves otherwise.

He is #1 for selfies at Davos.

Derek 2.0 · January 22, 2016

If you ask some around here, in only 3 short months Trudeau has managed to totally wreck the Canadian economy and make us look like idiots on the world stage. Since Harper is gone, we can absolve him of any blame and put it all on Trudeau. Why can't Trudeau get his crap together? Total failure already.

Trudeau very much so owns our currently confused foreign policy........that can't be blamed on Harper.

Derek 2.0 · January 22, 2016

True....Chretien was much better at this game. Trudeau is a rookie PM, and considered untrustworthy and unpredictable until he proves otherwise.

Clearly the difference between Chretien and Trudeau is that the former had far more experience in Government (Including PET's cabinet), I fully expect him to continue to make mistakes (all Governments do), the question is how costly said mistakes will be and what negative impact they will have on Canada.

Smallc · January 22, 2016

Trudeau very much so owns our currently confused foreign policy

We're going to remove our combat aircraft in a responsible way, allowing for a transition by our allies. We're going to change our mission after deciding what we can best do. Until then, everything is status quo. This of course, is not the limit of foreign policy. I don't find it the least bit confusing.

Wilber · January 22, 2016

Trudeau does not have a real say in the foreign policy unless it matches those of the military big wigs. If you ask some around here, in only 3 short months Trudeau has managed to totally wreck the Canadian economy and make us look like idiots on the world stage. Since Harper is gone, we can absolve him of any blame and put it all on Trudeau. Why can't Trudeau get his crap together? Total failure already.

Actually, despite all the negative comments on one side and hero worship on the other, he hasn't done anything yet. Everything has been optics. The upcoming budget will make things much clearer.

Smallc · January 22, 2016

Actually, despite all the negative comments on one side and hero worship on the other, he hasn't done anything yet.

That's exactly why I have trouble with all of the criticism at this point (though to be fair, according to the website tracking such things, he's kept 12 promises and broken 3, so he has done something).

bush_cheney2004 · January 22, 2016

Clearly the difference between Chretien and Trudeau is that the former had far more experience in Government (Including PET's cabinet), I fully expect him to continue to make mistakes (all Governments do), the question is how costly said mistakes will be and what negative impact they will have on Canada.

Agreed, but as you probably know, Canada's relevance and access to allied resources will be limited commensurate with the ruling government's policies and decisions. It's an old headache that pre-dates Trudeau....how much to depend on and trust Canada. PM Harper called it a "seat at the table"....and others have said the same thing. In practice it means treating Canada differently because it could bolt at any time...a trust issue.

Now in power, Trudeau will learn to play ball behind the scenes while publicly presenting a fierce and independent policy towards the American or British or French "warmongers". It has worked on Canada's voters before...and it will work again.

Derek 2.0 · January 22, 2016

We're going to remove our combat aircraft in a responsible way, allowing for a transition by our allies.

Define "responsible way".........we could have given them until the end of November to find alternatives.......

We're going to change our mission after deciding what we can best do.

I thought the Liberals decided their policy on combating ISIS in late 2014...........they still haven't figured it out?

Until then, everything is status quo. This of course, is not the limit of foreign policy. I don't find it the least bit confusing.

Its not the limit to foreign policy, but should be on the front burner, none the less, their other foreign policies have lacked substance.

Derek 2.0 · January 22, 2016

Actually, despite all the negative comments on one side and hero worship on the other, he hasn't done anything yet. Everything has been optics. The upcoming budget will make things much clearer.

Fore sure, I'm sure the shine will dim on Sunny Ways once the first budget is tabled, which will leave many outstretched hands.......

Smallc · January 22, 2016

Define "responsible way".........we could have given them until the end of November to find alternatives.......

And maybe they asked us to stay longer. That's what being responsible is about.

I thought the Liberals decided their policy on combating ISIS in late 2014...........they still haven't figured it out?

Responsible means you don't jut do things because you said them, but you do them when and if they make sense in context. As this war is unwinnable with current efforts, I would imagine that the context is difficult for Trudeau and Sajjan.

Its not the limit to foreign policy, but should be on the front burner, none the less, their other foreign policies have lacked substance.

Their positions on trade, investment, and climate have had the same, the same, and more substance than the previous government.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Smallc

Derek 2.0 · January 22, 2016

Now in power, Trudeau will learn to play ball behind the scenes while publicly presenting a fierce and independent policy towards the American or British or French "warmongers". It has worked on Canada's voters before...and it will work again.

True........a Trump-Trudeau relationship would be quite entertaining though

bush_cheney2004 · January 22, 2016

True........a Trump-Trudeau relationship would be quite entertaining though

Couldn't be any worse than the Nixon-PET relationship...still fighting commies all the way. Can we still say "commies" here ?

Derek 2.0 · January 22, 2016

And maybe they asked us to stay longer. That's what being responsible is about.

Did they? I know the United States and French have asked nations to do more, not less, as Trudeau proposes.

Responsible means you don't jut do things because you said them, but you do them when and if they make sense in context. As this war is unwinnable with current efforts, I would imagine that the context is difficult for Trudeau and Sajjan.

So Trudeau's promises were irresponsible?

Their positions on trade, investment, and climate have had the same, the same, and more substance than the previous government.

What positions? They went to Paris with the Harper Governments promises......

Derek 2.0 · January 22, 2016

Couldn't be any worse than the Nixon-PET relationship...still fighting commies all the way. Can we still say "commies" here ?

I hope not, the 70s and early 80s in Canada are best forgotten..........but you could be onto something, we've got a Trudeau and a dumpster fire for an economy, now its up to you guys to make America great again.....so Canadians have somewhere to flee to

bush_cheney2004 · January 22, 2016

I hope not, the 70s and early 80s in Canada are best forgotten..........but you could be onto something, we've got a Trudeau and a dumpster fire for an economy, now its up to you guys to make America great again.....so Canadians have somewhere to flee to

Well, that's not gonna happen anytime soon, but Canada can be sure that foreign policy wise, it will be bombs and bullets no matter who wins the election. We are very trustworthy and reliable bastards that way...just look at the Pentagon's budget !

Smallc · January 22, 2016

Did they? I know the United States and French have asked nations to do more, not less, as Trudeau proposes.

Which means I'm probably right.

So Trudeau's promises were irresponsible?

I didn't say that. Things are different depending on which bench you happen to be sitting on. It's easy to say things without the benefit of all the information or the burden of governing.

What positions? They went to Paris with the Harper Governments promises......

Last I checked, they committed almost $3B of new money to climate change, and $100M to the international refugee agency. They're also in the process of fulfilling their promise on refugee numbers, though the timetable wasn't kept. That seems quite substantive.

Derek 2.0 · January 22, 2016

Which means I'm probably right.

Huh? Trudeau and his cabinet ministers have been quite clear, one day, the Hornets will be brought home........that doesn't translate into doing more.

I didn't say that. Things are different depending on which bench you happen to be sitting on. It's easy to say things without the benefit of all the information or the burden of governing.

Would you consider saying things, without all the information present to make a logical policy, is irresponsible?

Last I checked, they committed almost $3B of new money to climate change, and $100M to the international refugee agency. They're also in the process of fulfilling their promise on refugee numbers, though the timetable wasn't kept. That seems quite substantive.

Is there a means test to measure a level of success in the $3 billion pledge?It would seem, with our economy diving into the dumpster, said $3 billion would be better spent at home.........I wouldn't call their refugee "policy" a success, its late, over budget and stressing the resources of the Provinces and cities.........

Smallc · January 22, 2016

Huh? Trudeau and his cabinet ministers have been quite clear, one day, the Hornets will be brought home........that doesn't translate into doing more.

At the moment, they're not doing less. That critical thinker in me assumes that this was a compromise.

Would you consider saying things, without all the information present to make a logical policy, is irresponsible?

I would consider it normal, as people and people who happen to be politicians do it regularly. You do it. I do it. The nice thing about evidence and an open mind is that it changes perspectives.

Is there a means test to measure a level of success in the $3 billion pledge?It would seem, with our economy diving into the dumpster, said $3 billion would be better spent at home.........I wouldn't call their refugee "policy" a success, its late, over budget and stressing the resources of the Provinces and cities.........

You're moving the goal post. You said their foreign policy wasn't substantive. It's actually more substantive than that of the pervious government in many areas.

Derek 2.0 · January 22, 2016

At the moment, they're not doing less. That critical thinker in me assumes that this was a compromise.

Then why were they not invited to the partners meeting?

I would consider it normal, as people and people who happen to be politicians do it regularly. You do it. I do it. The nice thing about evidence and an open mind is that it changes perspectives.

So, some of Trudeau's pre-election pledges were irresponsible then?

You're moving the goal post. You said their foreign policy wasn't substantive. It's actually more substantive than that of the pervious government in many areas.

Promising to give away money we don't have isn't a substantive policy.

Smallc · January 22, 2016

Huh? Trudeau and his cabinet ministers have been quite clear, one day, the Hornets will be brought home........that doesn't translate into doing more.

At the moment, they're not doing less. That critical thinker in me assumes that this was a compromise.

Would you consider saying things, without all the information present to make a logical policy, is irresponsible?

I would consider it normal, as people and people who happen to be politicians do it regularly. You do it. I do it. The nice thing about evidence and an open mind is that it changes perspectives.

Is there a means test to measure a level of success in the $3 billion pledge?It would seem, with our economy diving into the dumpster, said $3 billion would be better spent at home.........I wouldn't call their refugee "policy" a success, its late, over budget and stressing the resources of the Provinces and cities.........

You're moving the goal post. You said their foreign policy wasn't substantive. It's actually more substantive than that of the pervious government in many areas.

Smallc · January 22, 2016

Then why were they not invited to the partners meeting?

You'd have to ask someone with actual knowledge of the reason to get an answer.

So, some of Trudeau's pre-election pledges were irresponsible then?

I'm sure some of them were ill informed or ill considered. Irresponsible attaches a motive that I don't see evidence of.

Promising to give away money we don't have isn't a substantive policy.

Promising to contribute to global efforts to fight climate change and to resettle refugees certainly is. You're again attempting to move the goal post.

Harper spent a lot of money we didn't have too. He did it for similar reasons overall (a shaky economy and a political mandate to fulfill certain promises). You didn't complain then. Neither did I. One of us is being hypocritical.