Argus Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 If someone is doing something that is legal but the recipient is uncomfortable then I suggest that the recipient should leave the area. So if Black people are upset that people are using racist language and jeering at them, they should just leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 So if Black people are upset that people are using racist language and jeering at them, they should just leave. <sarcasm>Maybe they should call their 20 Somalian cousins down and see how jeering that group is then </sarcasm> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 So if Black people are upset that people are using racist language and jeering at them, they should just leave.That would be an option. They could also ignore them. Or they could respond to them. But the chances of this happening are very minimal. Very few racists have the courage to confront others in public, they choose to hide behind anonymous avatars on public access opinion boards. There have been a number of social experiments where it is staged in a public place that a member of a minority is berated, jeered and racist language is used against them. In all experiments bystanders came to the defense of the minority and in some cases popped the racist in the mouth. That is the usual reaction by most rational people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Most of these people are coming from places where women are covered and socializing with opposite sex is considered a sin and separated from childhood and now suddenly they come to an advanced country where they are free to watch white possibly blonde women in swimming clothing and likely harass women and get away with it because of liberal laws, likely is too much for them to absorb all the same time. The sad cases of sexual assaults that took place in Cologne on New year's eve is a proof of above statements. Why would asylum seekers choose to go to swimming pools since until one year ago they were homeless in the middle of desert disallowed to see a woman's hair even?. I would say in proved cases of harassment especially if sexual assault is involved deport them back to the worm-hell they come from. And a lesson for Canada to limit the number to be admitted from certain regions and to allow in only families. Edited January 21, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Woe a little common sense here. You don't just ban. You ban the individual where the situation warrants it not before and you have women only swim times. By the way Muslims have asked and been able to have public pools create times where only Muslim women get to swim and these women swim in their clothes leaving the pools dirty for people coming after them. Yah yah its racist for saying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Many women swimming laps in a pool would feel very uncomfortable to have men 'looking' or 'leering' while they are working out. While it's not illegal, the facilities have the right to ban individuals if they are not being respectful to women but certainly not the entire population of male asylum seekers. Agreed. It is within pool rules to suspend/ban individuals who are 'leering'. It isn't appropriate to suspend/ban others who have not misbehaved. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Agreed. It is within pool rules to suspend/ban individuals who are 'leering'. It isn't appropriate to suspend/ban others who have not misbehaved. . Who decides what is leering and what is looking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 That would be an option. They could also ignore them. Or they could respond to them. So your position is that everyone is on their own, and there should be no institutional action to protect minorities or women? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) So know we have women that work at European refugee centres being forced to dress differently. Edited January 22, 2016 by Shady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 So your position is that everyone is on their own, and there should be no institutional action to protect minorities or women?My position is what I have stated. I state my views in the clearest language that I am able. If you have difficulty in understanding it then that is your problem. But if you are continuing having difficulty, then just say you do not understand and I will attempt to rephrase it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I didn''t say ban everyone. Read my post. I was clear in my post that THOSE who are guilty of harassment and definitely for assault must be picked up and deported to the desert they come from. And I also said we should restrict immigration from regions where are culturally so much different (Okay I say it from Middle East) and only accept those with proven adaptability and success (based on interview and education). There are so many culturally compatible potential migrants from Eastern and Western Europe (I met Russians and Romanians dream of coming to Canada and they can't even secure a visitor's visa!!!!) and we take tens of thousands from incompatible cultures each year (yes take them but they should be already adopted to this culture). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Who decides what is leering and what is looking? Big Guy above asks a question but has also stated and I quote: " I believe that it is wrong to use the feelings of anybody as a criteria for behavior in any public place." So he's made it clear if a woman complains she feels she is being leered at in public, he does not feel her feelings are relevant- so why does he bother to ask for an answer to a question when he has already indicated he FEELS the answer is not relevant?. So there you have it, Big Guy doesn't think it relevant to acknowledge the validity of a woman's feelings in public let alone when she feels leered at. I guess I can just treat trod on any woman's feelings in public and if she doesn't like it I will simply state I can because Big Guy says the woman's feelings are not relevant if she is in public. Brilliant. An excellent example of how we want men to behave. Is anyone surprised. Gosh would it surprise you that Shiite fundamentalist Muslims don't think a woman's feelings are relevant when defining the behaviour of men not just in public but in private? Hmmmmm? OOOOpsy do I see someone's religious bias poking through loud and clear? This coming from the same person who accuses people of Islamophobia if they question a Muslim woman for saying she needs to cover her body in public because she feels leered at. What a bloody joke. Someone else explain to Big guy his fatwa is defective because in Canada, in our soociety, the feelings of women both in private and public are considered valid criteria when drafting laws and its why for example you can not sexually assault a woman in public. You might also want to explain to him that in Canada because we acknowledge the feelings and dignity of women in public, for the most part with the exception of certain fundamentalist Muslims, they don't have to cover themselves up. Finally you might want to explain to him that in our society seeing a woman's arms or legs does not get us all hot and sudsy and the vast majority of us believe if Big Guy leers at a woman in public or in private, many of us won't lose any sleep if he's given a kick to his kahunas, a slap to his Persian rug or if he doesn't knock it off find himself in jail for a range of municipal by law infractions or even a criminal charge. Yep I want Big Guy in a public pool area where my daughters are swimming. Right. If my daughters complained he was leering at them in a public place, Bug Guy would find out quick enough how valid their feelings are. Edited January 22, 2016 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Just an update - Rue believes that Big Guy is an anti-Semite, anti leering, terrorist loving, Muslim loving, misogynist, race baiter, liar, ignorant, anti-Zionist, pro Putin, Pro dictatorships, Jew hater, Arab lover, misinformed, double standarder, out of touch, troll, stupid, lefty wingnut, Netanyahu hater, Harper hater, Obama lover, Iran supporter, Israeli hater... and has bad breath. Stay tuned for next months update. Edited January 22, 2016 by Big Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just an update - Rue believes that Big Guy is an anti-Semite, anti leering, terrorist loving, Muslim loving, misogynist, race baiter, liar, ignorant, anti-Zionist, pro Putin, Pro dictatorships, Jew hater, Arab lover, misinformed, double standarder, out of touch, troll, stupid, lefty wingnut, Netanyahu hater, Harper hater, Obama lover, Iran supporter, Israeli hater... and has bad breath. Stay tuned for next months update. I can see that you didn't ponder any of his thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 There are so many culturally compatible potential migrants from Eastern and Western Europe (I met Russians and Romanians dream of coming to Canada and they can't even secure a visitor's visa!!!!) and we take tens of thousands from incompatible cultures each year (yes take them but they should be already adopted to this culture). How can they be already adopted to our culture before we allow them asylum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I can see that you didn't ponder any of his thoughts. Thank you. I should have added "Rue's thoughts non-ponderer." I feel better now. Oh, just noticed an edit. So now Big Guy is an anti-leerer and a pro-leerer too. Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Now enough of the silly stuff. As I asked earlier, what is the difference between "looking" and "leering". If indeed it is a subjective interpretation based on a human behavior then who does the interpretation;The looker/leerer or the looked at/leered? I believe that we have discussed this in the past where during the interaction of two people, an action takes place that is interpreted very different by the two individuals. The term applied to describe the action will dictate which interpretation one supports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) If a woman feels she was being leered at, she was being leered at. If a man says he was just looking, he was just looking. If a pool employee makes a decision either way, I'm okay with it. Edited January 22, 2016 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) How can they be already adopted to our culture before we allow them asylum? Actually there are many people over there who are already very westernized. I don't know specifically about Arabs (except Palestinians and Jordanians I have met and few were progressive) and North Africans (except Moroccans) but I have met a number of Persians (aka Iranians) in the university and work life and bars as well who are more westernized than many western born people and also a number of Moroccans too (mainly the female population) and a few Turks too though not as many and Those Turks I met were not as westernized as Persian Iranians or Arab Moroccans and Arab Palestinians. As for Iran apparently there were under a westernized government/culture for half a century. I read in many places that Iranians love and admire American culture and are the most pro-American nation in the region. Not to mention 98% literacy rate and the fact that they have the highest number of university graduates with females being the largest proportion of graduates assuming high ranking positions (as opposed to Saudi Arabia where females cannot even drive). ps - by westernized I mean respect for women, love westsern culture, be considerate and respectful to others, share our values and respect for freedom and human rights. I exclude the dark sides of western culture (drugs, teenage pregnancy, prostitution, alcoholism, wife abuse and bartering, ....) Edited January 22, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Actually there are many people over there who are already very westernized. I don't know specifically about Arabs (except Palestinians and Jordanians I have met and few were progressive) and North Africans (except Moroccans) but I have met a number of Persians (aka Iranians) in the university and work life and bars as well who are more westernized than many western born people and also a number of Moroccans too (mainly the female population) and a few Turks too though not as many and Those Turks I met were not as westernized as Persian Iranians or Arab Moroccans and Arab Palestinians. As for Iran apparently there were under a westernized government/culture for half a century. I read in many places that Iranians love and admire American culture and are the most pro-American nation in the region. ps - by westernized I mean respect for women, love westsern culture, be considerate and respectful to others, share our values and respect for freedom and human rights. I exclude the dark sides of western culture (drugs, teenage pregnancy, prostitution, alcoholism, wife abuse and bartering, ....) So why the backlash in Canada given the info you just provided? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 So why the backlash in Canada given the info you just provided? I am not sure I understand. The backlash in Canada?? What backlash? If there is any, likely because of lack of info (I don't wish to use the word ignorance on fellow citizens) as in the mind of some uninformed all middle eastern are the same, Btw I forgot to mention many Lebanese Arabs I have met (especially Christian Lebanese) who were quite westernized too not as westernized as Persians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 If a woman feels she was being leered at, she was being leered at. If a man says he was just looking, he was just looking. If a pool employee makes a decision either way, I'm okay with it. And what criteria is the pool man (male or female or young or old or gay or straight) supposed to use to make the decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 And what criteria is the pool man (male or female or young or old or gay or straight) supposed to use to make the decision? What criteria is either the woman or the man using? There's no manual. If someone is asked to leave because their behaviour is deemed inappropriate, they should leave. They can appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Who decides what is leering and what is looking? You don't know the difference? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 What criteria is either the woman or the man using? There's no manual. If someone is asked to leave because their behaviour is deemed inappropriate, they should leave. They can appeal. Deemed inappropriate by whom? I believe that the recent court decision set the precedent that because a person "feels" harassed does not mean they are being harassed. If a young lady is swimming in a pool and 3 black guys walk in can she ask them to leave because she "feels" afraid and uncomfortable with blacks? Or a black woman in a pool with three white guys? Actually in Elliot's case, it is acceptable to harass under some conditions: "In Elliott’s case, the judge found Elliott was harassing the women by repeatedly tweeting them and that he knew they were harassed. He found, however, that Elliott’s actions failed to reach the level of criminal harassment, because it was not reasonable, on the facts of the case, for Guthrie and Reilly to fear for their safety, physical or psychological." The only manual that is in play is that it is a public place giving equal access to all members of the public who are following the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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