Iran vs Saudi Arabia

[bush_cheney2004]

The US asked this question around 60 years ago and probably made what's amounted to the most monumental mistake in it's history. Bar none.

Easy decision....then and now.

Canada happily sells LAVs made by its American defense subsidiary for the American supported Saudis. Mistake ?

[Argus]

The BIG different between Saudi Arabia and Iran is that in Iran the people are progressive and secular (the majority are) and fighting their way hard for reforms and a democratic secular government but in Saudi Arabia both the government and the people are religious fanatics and believe in inequality of women and hate for other religions.

Whether some or all of the people of Iran are more progressive is not of much relevance. The mullahs are in charge and their grip on power is rock solid. The decisions and actions Iran takes will be based on what the mullahs want, at least for the next decade or two.

[bush_cheney2004]

Whether some or all of the people of Iran are more progressive is not of much relevance. The mullahs are in charge and their grip on power is rock solid. The decisions and actions Iran takes will be based on what the mullahs want, at least for the next decade or two.

Agreed...if they are so fired up in Iran for democracy and reform, riot against their own government instead of foreign embassies.

[eyeball]

Easy decision....then and now.

Canada happily sells LAVs made by its American defense subsidiary for the American supported Saudis. Mistake ?

Clearly.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Saudi Arabia is more dangerous than Iran.

http://qz.com/589737/iran-is-dangerous-but-saudi-arabia-is-even-worse/

[sirius]

Iran is independent country Saudi isn't. Saudi is under usa "protection". And Iran can't go against usa. At least not the same way usa went against Iraq. Even more, Iran is in defense position to usa.

[-1=e^ipi]

I would tend to back the more Western friendly, non-nuclear weapon seeking country.

Who funds the ideology that leads to ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabab & Al Queda? The saudis and the gulf states.

How many of the recent islamist attacks have been done by shia muslims? Zero. How many have been done by sunni muslims? All of them.

The Saudis are an order of magnitude worse than Iran. It's insane that we continue to be allied with the genocidal Saudi regime. They commit genocide against apostates, against gay people and against shia muslims.

The Saudis don't even let women drive. Even ISIS let's women drive.

[-1=e^ipi]

Do we strike a cord a cord with a nation that is more in tune with our value systems or just sacrifice the alliance for the sake of oil?

If the USA foreign policy was all about oil, Keystone XL would have been passed years ago.

I think the issue of Saudi Arabia of more politicians thinking 'well we've always supported Saudi Arabia, therefore we must continue to always support Saudi Arabia'. Basically an irrational preference for the status quo, perhaps combined with a cold war mentality with respect to Russia.

[Topaz]

Iran is independent country Saudi isn't. Saudi is under usa "protection". And Iran can't go against usa. At least not the same way usa went against Iraq. Even more, Iran is in defense position to usa.

U R right but wouldn't Russia/China take Iran side? Males leaders only want to flex their military power to the other guy, instead taking a deep breath and count to 10 and TALK!

[Argus]

Saudi Arabia is more dangerous than Iran.

http://qz.com/589737/iran-is-dangerous-but-saudi-arabia-is-even-worse/

They are both dangerous and both enemies of the West.

[GostHacked]

They are both dangerous and both enemies of the West.

Not according to our government. You and I may be 100% against Saudi Arabia, but our government just made a deal for weapons for the Saudis worth billions for Canada. I wonder where the real problem is.

[eyeball]

Normally it doesn't matter when trade is the issue. Typically it's just a business deal and of zero concern to us how the people we trade with behave.

Perhaps this case will finally be the exception and I'll be interested in see why that should be.

[GostHacked]

Normally it doesn't matter when trade is the issue. Typically it's just a business deal and of zero concern to us how the people we trade with behave.

Perhaps this case will finally be the exception and I'll be interested in see why that should be.

As your avatar pic would elude to, is that 'you're not gonna get any truth from us'.

[eyeball]

As your avatar pic would elude to, is that 'you're not gonna get any truth from us'.

That's okay, silence and avoidance speaks volumes too.

[sirius]

U R right but wouldn't Russia/China take Iran side? Males leaders only want to flex their military power to the other guy, instead taking a deep breath and count to 10 and TALK!

It is one country that has 1400 military bases in 120 countries and that country destroyed 3 countries in 25 years. 5 with ucraine and siria. And now all europe. And that country made 3 completely different countries (in fact most of the world) to take a side in the same direction.

[Rue]

Refer back to post 60 if anyone remains confused. If you have a choice between lung cancer or liver cancer well its not much of a choice.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, ....if it wasn't for the vast oil money they would have been still living in deserts, riding camels and eating snakes. Everything including the military hardware is oil driven import and that includes luxury hotels and roads and buildings fueled by oil money and built by foreigners. No brains just oil driving the power in Arabian region. No wonder there has never been a major uprising against the puppet regimes there.

Edited January 11, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[Rue]

So Citizen with your comments in mind believe Saudi Arabia now feels it can bankrupt its competitors in the US and Canada by lowering the price of oil making it financially not profitable for the US or Canada to extract oil from shale or tar sands.

I think that is one of their motives. However what I do not get, is that if oil is so much cheaper, why did our economy crash? How did Canada get so dependent on exporting oil that it now can't compete in other sectors?

Some argue Harper over-concentrated Canadian revenue making from selling oil and gas and did not do a good enough job diversifying our economy.

So what now? The Trudeau government doesn't sound at all like it has a handle on how to diversify our economy. In fact its talking about reviving a look at a free trade with China. China already purchased all our coal reserves. Do the Liberals want to sell out our oil like Russian, Iran, Sudan, Mozambique and Angola did with a quick fix simply making us a colony of China and not just the US?

I fear China is replacing the US all over the world as the no.1 influence on world finance markets.

I don't think we'll do as well with China. I would prefer to see Canada emphasize free trade with even Russia before China.

I see China as a predatory beast watching the collapse of the US and thinking it can absorb us into their sphere of control.

We need to find other sources of revenue but what? Manufacturing in Ontario has gone poof and vanished. So now what?

There is only so many trees to cut down.

I think Saudi Arabia in its effort to fight China and Iran and Russia, is hurting our economy.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Rue

[TimG]

Some argue Harper over-concentrated Canadian revenue making from selling oil and gas and did not do a good enough job diversifying our economy.

The economy does what the economy does. The government has little control over what succeeds but it can turn success into failure with bad regulations.

There was a world wide shift in manufacturing away from expensive jurisdictions to cheap jurisdictions that put pressure on Canadian industry. It would have happened even if we did not have oil because we can't compete with Mexico or China on price or geography when it comes to industries that employ large numbers of people. The manufacturing industry that remains relies on specialized knowledge and/or automation which means its ability to employ people is much less even if it makes a profit.

This problem was not a big deal when oil was high because the oil fields still needed large numbers of workers but that party is over. All any government could do is follow the market trends.

I fear China is replacing the US all over the world as the no.1 influence on world finance markets.

China has created a bubble that makes 1990 Japan look like a minor blip. The government is able to maintain the illusion of growth only by falsifying the economic statistics it publishes. No one knows where China will be once the dust settles. It will always be a big player but it will only be one among several equals.

I don't think we'll do as well with China. I would prefer to see Canada emphasize free trade with even Russia before China.

Free trade with China is a dumb idea because it would never be reciprocal. All we would do is give Chinese companies free access to Canadian markets while Canadian companies in China are blocked by corrupt officials and regulations that are only enforced against foreign companies even if they theoretically apply to all. Edited January 11, 2016 by TimG

[Rue]

No surprise Tim G I agree with your comments especially the first 3 paragraphs..

[CITIZEN_2015]

The Canada Saudi military contract for selling arms must be torn up and cancelled. Saudi Arabia's shameful human rights records, the financial support of terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaeda and ISIS, the deprivation of half of population from basic human rights such as driving and voting, the spread of islamic extremism and the extremist islamic schools they are funding all over the world, their corrupt puppet regime are more reasons why the contract for the sale of military vehicles and weapons t this stinky country which was signed by the scandalist corrupt former government (Harper regime) without any considerations for widespread human right violations and which was recently booted out by Canadian voters must be cancelled.

And btw, a large portion of our current economic problems is largely related to Saudis going back to their commitment to stabilize the price of oil and flooded the market with their oil purposely to bankrupt their Persian Gulf rival Iran. They can't beat them in brains which Saudis Arabs have none so they wish to defeat them in an oil war which btw is the only thing they have.

Edited January 16, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[-1=e^ipi]

The government is able to maintain the illusion of growth only by falsifying the economic statistics it publishes.

Proof? I call BS.

[Big Guy]

Any contract has a penalty clause if either of the parties defaults on the agreement (just ask Ontario's McGuinty on power plants and Chretien on helicopters). It would be interesting to see how much it would cost to Canada in penalties if it now pulls out of the deal.

That may have an effect on people's opinions as to tearing up the contract or going ahead.

[msj]

Proof? I call BS.

Really? I mean, really? Someone actually believes China's GDP numbers!

You don't find it strange that the number always comes out so quickly after a quarter ends?

You don't find it odd that the estimate and the actual number are always bang on or pretty darn close?

You don't find it odd that the numbers are not revised several times like advanced economies do?

Or if they are revised it is something convenient like "the first two quarters of 2012 have been revised down by 0.1% but quarter four has been revised up 0.1%."

It is simply not plausible to anyone who pays attention to this stuff.

[-1=e^ipi]

Give me proof. I call BS that China can inflate their growth rate for such a long period of time without people noticing and correcting for this.

Do they commit fraud? Sure, especially when it comes to CO2 emissions. But give me proof or I won't believe it about real GDP growth.