terrorists occupy gov't office in Oregon

ReeferMadness · January 29, 2016

Jacket pocket? Of course, and that would make sense if he were wearing a shoulder holster.....but doesn't explain why he was reaching down to his waist with both hands.

He's not wearing a suit jacket. If there are inside pockets, they would have been lower down. The video isn't clear so it's just a guess.

ReeferMadness · January 29, 2016

Could be, but then most of the holes in the windows look like they were blown out with 12 gauges.

Again. 120 shots? If they fired with their eyes closed, some of the bullets would have hit the truck. Where are the holes? And where in the video can you see them shooting?

Derek 2.0 · January 29, 2016

He's not wearing a suit jacket. If there are inside pockets, they would have been lower down. The video isn't clear so it's just a guess.

Fair enough, and that is why I'd like to see the autopsy report (if its released).....I think he is reacting to a gun shot or an injury from the crash.

To me, a right handed shooter, carrying a handgun in a pocket on his weak side doesn't make sense.

ReeferMadness · January 29, 2016

Of course there aren't police in front of the truck, that would be a Darwin award..........fanning out to the sides to cover people inside a car is standard .....watch any dash cam footage or COPS.

I don't need a dashcam, I can see the actual footage. Look around 2 minutes and again around 4 minutes. Aside from one guy stepping a few feet into the forest and discovering the snow is too deep to maneuver, they're not fanning out. They're standing around picking their butts. And they are not firing.

Derek 2.0 · January 29, 2016

Again. 120 shots? If they fired with their eyes closed, some of the bullets would have hit the truck. Where are the holes? And where in the video can you see them shooting?

When the helicopter is behind the trees and rounding the front of the truck, you can see impacts on the truck and in the snow in front of it (in addition to several flash bangs going off)

ReeferMadness · January 29, 2016

Missed this......Could be a rifle or a handgun, but is from the four plus officers behind the truck and the body, covering the other guys leaving the truck.

Again, its not from a helicopter, the helicopter is miles above the road, and only in the movies snipers shoot from helicopters.

The dot is on the top of the truck at multiple points during the video. Look at 7:49. There is no way that anybody is doing that other than from the air.

ReeferMadness · January 29, 2016

When the helicopter is behind the trees and rounding the front of the truck, you can see impacts on the truck and in the snow in front of it (in addition to several flash bangs going off)

Yes, but impacts from what? The FBI talk about non lethal rounds. And certainly not 120.

Derek 2.0 · January 29, 2016

I don't need a dashcam, I can see the actual footage. Look around 2 minutes and again around 4 minutes. Aside from one guy stepping a few feet into the forest and discovering the snow is too deep to maneuver, they're not fanning out. They're standing around picking their butts. And they are not firing.

You can see the several officers beside the van with a line of sight to the passenger side.......then from ~2:45 the footage change focus and revert back to the jeep (driven by Mcconnell), then through the 6 minute mark, hands still out windows, then it passes behind the trees, then (7:50) the driver sticking his head out the window, hands back in, after the (muzzle) flashes from the police line at ~8:09+, he takes his foot off the brakes and then several more flashes are seen from off camera as he buggers off.

Derek 2.0 · January 29, 2016

The dot is on the top of the truck at multiple points during the video. Look at 7:49. There is no way that anybody is doing that other than from the air.

Or the police officers at a higher elevation near the tree line, behind the truck and not from a moving helicopter, miles away, as evident by the differing zoom focuses :rolleyes:

You can see the laser splash the roof of the truck........go point a flash light down your hall and then point it at the floor half way down......lasers react the same as lights (in the dark).

Derek 2.0 · January 29, 2016

Yes, but impacts from what? The FBI talk about non lethal rounds. And certainly not 120.

The non lethal rounds are the explosions/mini fire balls..........

----------

The FBI also used "non lethal" chemical agents on the Waco compound, the problem, your combine said rounds with fire from camp cooking stoves, you create Hydrogen Cyanide........The FBI is not infallible, nor adverse to attempting to change the channel after they screw-up, as such, I'll put more stock in the investigation being carried out by the Oregon State Police.

kimmy · January 29, 2016

Good grief. The "red dot" on the roof of the truck isn't a targeting laser.

It's the rooftop brake light on the back of the truck's roof reflecting off the front of the truck cap that's covering the bed of the pickup.

The rest of this is fan fiction. There's no evidence of a hail of bullets in the video. It's wishful thinking from supporters who want to believe that Finicum is a martyr rather than a guy who died while acting foolishly in the face of armed law enforcement officers.

-k

Derek 2.0 · January 29, 2016

Good grief. The "red dot" on the roof of the truck isn't a targeting laser.

It's the rooftop brake light on the back of the truck's roof reflecting off the front of the truck cap that's covering the bed of the pickup.

Odd that the roof top brake light dances on the three people leaving the trucks's faces, likewise, that the brake light(s) are painting Finicum's head well on the ground......break lights from the cops in the treeline, that enter the frame after the third person exits the truck :rolleyes:

The rest of this is fan fiction. There's no evidence of a hail of bullets in the video. It's wishful thinking from supporters who want to believe that Finicum is a martyr rather than a guy who died while acting foolishly in the face of armed law enforcement officers.

-k

Except from the impacts on the truck body.........you care to explain how Ryan Bundy received a gun shot wound in the shoulder?

edited to add...........from 7 seconds, looks like a guy reaching for shot to his lower left side....

Edited January 29, 2016 by Derek 2.0

The_Squid · January 29, 2016

Clearly the militants lied about how this clown died. Video shows he could have been reaching for something. Not surprising that he was then shot dead.

Derek2.0 and his obsession with truthiness about these clowns is a bit silly.

I thought these people were going to be at the refuge years if that's what it took... and wouldn't be taken without a fight! lol idiots...

Big Guy · January 29, 2016

He gave them his gun when they "pry (or take) it from my (his) cold, dead hands".

Charlton Heston would be proud!

God Bless America!

Hal 9000 · January 29, 2016

I agree with Kimmy, definitely the brake light at the top of the cab. However, my suspicion is that he had his hands up and he wasn't reaching into his pocket, he looked like he had been shot in that side by the cop on the road and was reacting to that by putting his hand down to the wound (that would seem to be a natural reaction).

If you play with the bull....well, you get it.

I think it's strange that the Michael Brown thing caused so much hysteria when it was clearly based on a lie, yet those same people seem smug...almost giddy about this dude being killed. Personally, I'm indifferent, but this looks like an ambush and killing of a dude with his hands up.

Derek 2.0 · January 29, 2016

And not surprising:

The examiner's office didn't release the results of the autopsy and refused a request by The Oregonian/OregonLive for a copy of the report.

I wonder if they will release the report to Finicum's family?

Derek 2.0 · January 29, 2016

I agree with Kimmy, definitely the brake light at the top of the cab.

You think that lights seen at the 15:10 to 15:25 minute mark, inside the cab and along the rear driver side panel are the break lights?

And the lights pointed at the second person's leaving the trucks chest at 16:05 are brake lights?

Or the "lights" pointed at the tailgate and canopy at 16:45 are brake lights?

And painted on the third person's chest at 17:20 to be brake lights?

BubberMiley · January 29, 2016

Seems like a simple case of shoulda kept those hands up. If there's one thing I've learned from all the right-wingers on this forum about police shootings, it's that.

The_Squid · January 29, 2016

Seems like a simple case of shoulda kept those hands up. If there's one thing I've learned from all the right-wingers on this forum about police shootings, it's that.

Especially if they know you are actually armed and you've threatened to kill people or die trying...

Seems common sense that under those circumstances if you don't give up (like the other militant terrorists that were with him) then you have a strong likelihood of being shot.

Hal 9000 · January 29, 2016

You think that lights seen at the 15:10 to 15:25 minute mark, inside the cab and along the rear driver side panel are the break lights?

And the lights pointed at the second person's leaving the trucks chest at 16:05 are brake lights?

Or the "lights" pointed at the tailgate and canopy at 16:45 are brake lights?

And painted on the third person's chest at 17:20 to be brake lights?

Well, you probably right about those lights. I wouldn't be surprised that there were police with laser sites on the scene. You can put those on any gun.

I think that this was an old fashioned "Bonnie and Clyde style" ambush. The cops likely didn't want to address the issue when the truck was stopped, in the expectation that they'd take them out farther down the road.

The more I see the video, the more I'm convinced that the cop who ran out from behind the Dodge pick-up started shooting while his hands were up. I'd bet anything the autopsy show this.

Derek 2.0 · January 29, 2016

Well, you probably right about those lights. I wouldn't be surprised that there were police with laser sites on the scene. You can put those on any gun.

Yeah, you can see the source of said "brake lights" enter the picture, top right, at 19:33

I think that this was an old fashioned "Bonnie and Clyde style" ambush. The cops likely didn't want to address the issue when the truck was stopped, in the expectation that they'd take them out farther down the road.

My question, why didn't they have spike strips deployed several hundred yards in front of the roadblock?

The more I see the video, the more I'm convinced that the cop who ran out from behind the Dodge pick-up started shooting while his hands were up. I'd bet anything the autopsy show this.

Exactly, from the zoomed in video, he's looks to be grasping his lower left side........why would he (and Bundy) when they first stopped, put their hands out of the window if they planned to go out guns blazing? You can clearly see flashes in the video before he takes off. Why would he get out of the truck with his hands up, if he planned to shoot it out with police? After he is dropped, why didn't police rush to secure his "weapon"? Further to that, why did the FBI redact the FLIR/Camera footage from the video, and why does the video "skip" at 39:40?

And why won't they release the autopsy? Would it show Finicum was shot or injured on his lower left side?

Hal 9000 · January 29, 2016

^^Well, I'm not going to go into spike strips and video skips. But, when you make threats that you won't be taken alive and that you'll go out shooting, you sort of lose the benefit of doubt as to your intentions. With that said, I believe this was a no weapons, hands up police shooting.

Derek 2.0 · January 29, 2016

^^Well, I'm not going to go into spike strips and video skips. But, when you make threats that you won't be taken alive and that you'll go out shooting, you sort of lose the benefit of doubt as to your intentions. With that said, I believe this was a no weapons, hands up police shooting.

No, when you nearly run down an officer at a roadblock, the benefit of the doubt is out the window............but as I said, when he is first stopped, you can clearly see the drivers, front passengers and rear driver side passengers hands out the window, then flashes, hands go back inside and then Finicum takes off.......

If he was planning to not be taken alive, why would he stop, and put his hands out the window?

The_Squid · January 29, 2016

Voodoo Donuts has welcomed the martyr (who chickened out) to Portland!

link

The_Squid · January 29, 2016

Imagine if uneducated, ignorant folks like the ones who took over the wildlife refuge were allowed to run things...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/malheur-standoff-puts-science-in-the-crosshairs/

Right now an archaeological survey is underway at the refuge to relocate some sites that were discovered in the 1970s but they are also identifying new ones in the course of the work. Archaeological work at the refuge is limited to sites that are in danger of being damaged. Burnside’s philosophy is that it is better to preserve the refuge’s archaeology for future generations rather than excavate it.

One of the sites that has, until now, been left intact happens to be the headquarters buildings the militants are occupying. They have been using a bulldozer in the area around those structures. The headquarters buildings and prehistoric sites near them are listed on the National Register of Historic Places. “If soil is being disturbed out there, it is highly likely that they have impacted prehistoric resources,” Burnside says. Damaging a site listed on the Register is a violation of the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 and could add to the list of charges facing the militants.