Wilber Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 We're not talking about Canada, every American can bring a case before a US Court and receive a ruling by at least a Judge or a jury of his peers.......1st Amendment protects this right.So you are saying precedent means nothing in the US and the courts must rule on the same thing over and over again. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Derek 2.0 Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) So you are saying precedent means nothing in the US and the courts must rule on the same thing over and over again. No I'm not, precedent very much comes into play, but what you're describing is the purview of the US appellate court system.......the problem of course, one can't appeal a ruling of a court, if it never heard said case, issuing a ruling in the first place. Edited January 12, 2016 by Derek 2.0 Quote
Wilber Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 No I'm not, precedent very much comes into play, but what you're describing is the purview of the US appellate court system.......the problem of course, one can't appeal a ruling of a court, if it never heard said case, issuing a ruling in the first place.Maybe there have been similar cases that have been decided so the courts aren't interested in do overs. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Derek 2.0 Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Maybe there have been similar cases that have been decided so the courts aren't interested in do overs. It doesn't mater, per the 1st Amendment.......further to that, the Bundy's claim of Government coercion with regards to the BLM's awarding of leases hasn't been brought before the US Courts system, hence this isn't a "do over".........and is why the Bundy's have met with a lawyer(s) and lawmakers from several Western States at the refuge in the past week. The only "do over" (appeal) would be over the Hammonds sentencing, which the Government appealed twice (the first judge wouldn't sentence the two on the Government's charge of terrorism) until they got the Judge that they wanted. Now if, as the Bundy's claim to now have, there is evidence that the Government's alleged unjust haranguing of the Hammonds was due to their previous refusal to sell their own property to the Feds, I'd very much expect the Hammonds to be released, any officials involved to be brought up on charges and the Hammonds to sue the Federal Government for a ton of money. If they have evidence, as they now claim, supporting both of their allegations, this could be but the first domino, which could involve the largest Federal transfer of land since the US Government bought Alaska from the Russians......if they don't, this group is hooped. Quote
Wilber Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Fine, so leave it to the lawyers and courts and quit the macho Rambo posturing. It will probably do them more harm that good. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Derek 2.0 Posted January 12, 2016 Report Posted January 12, 2016 Fine, so leave it to the lawyers and courts and quit the macho Rambo posturing. It will probably do them more harm that good. I think you're missing their point.......until they started their protest at the refuge, they were being ignored. Quote
Wilber Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 I think you're missing their point.......until they started their protest at the refuge, they were being ignored.Ignored by who? You just said the courts can't ignore them. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
ReeferMadness Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 I think you're missing their point.......until they started their protest at the refuge, they were being ignored. That's it - the yeehawdis camped in a wildlife refuge are "freedom fighters". Just like the Mujahideen when Reagan supported them. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Derek 2.0 Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) Ignored by who? Courts, elected officials, the BLM etc... You just said the courts can't ignore them. Legally they can't, but prior to the "occupation" they were........as noted, the group has since met, at the refuge, with elected officials from several States and lawyers........oddly enough, prior to the State legislators meeting with the Bundys, a solitary judge and officials from BLM and the FWS called on said State lawmakers to not meet the protesters......... So we have a groups of protesters, complaining about Government agencies and a district court judge, claiming they have evidence of wrongdoing on said parties, and said parties tried to obstruct elected lawmakers from meeting with said protesters..........and now said protesters will be holding a public meeting this coming Friday. As I said, they either have a case with evidence as they claim, which could have a massive impact on tendered Federal leases in the Western States......or they got nothing. Edited January 13, 2016 by Derek 2.0 Quote
cybercoma Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 That's it - the yeehawdis camped in a wildlife refuge are "freedom fighters". Just like the Mujahideen when Reagan supported them. Yeehawdis. Oh man. That overtakes the ammosexual pejorative. Quote
Wilber Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 It's interesting that the rest of society can function within the law using the recourse provided by the courts, but these guys are either special and those rules don't apply or they are incapable of functioning in such a society. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 It's interesting that the rest of society can function within the law using the recourse provided by the courts, but these guys are either special and those rules don't apply or they are incapable of functioning in such a society. Isn't that the same thing said when First Nations block highways in Canada ? Gee, why can't they just use the courts ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) Isn't that the same thing said when First Nations block highways in Canada ? Gee, why can't they just use the courts ! Yes, particularly if they do it at gun point. Edited January 13, 2016 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
ReeferMadness Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 Isn't that the same thing said when First Nations block highways in Canada ? Gee, why can't they just use the courts ! There actually is a difference. The First Nations are separate nations (see if you can spot the clue in the name!) and there is international recognition of that. That's also why they consistently win in the courts. Unlike you, we didn't massacre the native population - we just kept on making deals and breaking them (or in the case of BC, displacing them without making deals). That's why we still today have an unbelievable mess of unsettled land claims and a mostly clueless population of Canadians who don't understand their own history. Unfortunately, a bunch of clueless hillbillies whose sole unifying characteristic is misinterpreting your constitution don't qualify for nationhood. Perhaps they could register as a religion. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
eyeball Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 That's why we still today have an unbelievable mess of unsettled land claims and a mostly clueless population of Canadians who don't understand their own history. Or worse they do know but just don't give a damn. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 Unfortunately, a bunch of clueless hillbillies whose sole unifying characteristic is misinterpreting your constitution don't qualify for nationhood. Perhaps they could register as a religion. Oh...I get it...armed native protesters good....armed white guy protesters bad. Makes sense (NOT!) Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 Oh...I get it...armed native protesters good....armed white guy protesters bad. Makes sense (NOT!)I think we all know if this was armed natives this little shindig would have been over long ago. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 Oh...I get it...armed native protesters good....armed white guy protesters bad. Makes sense (NOT!) Didn't say that. I just said they weren't the same. You and others seem to want to make these guys out to be some sort of freedom fighters. Turns out they're only a common lot of losers and thugs. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 Didn't say that. Yes you did...and that's OK. Difference of opinion is allowed. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
ReeferMadness Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 Yes you did...and that's OK. Difference of opinion is allowed. No, I didn't. Comprehension might not be one of your strengths. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) No, I didn't. Comprehension might not be one of your strengths. No, I comprehend just find. You want to treat/consider armed protesters with actual gun rights (in USA) differently than those without gun rights (in Canada). ...and I'm OK with that. Edited January 13, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Posted January 13, 2016 Report Posted January 13, 2016 The inbred occupation now has the ISIS and Hitler supporting, anti-Israeli, government conspiracy theorist, David Frey on site, running a website for them. Now that seems like a good fit. “ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS FOR ISIS TO NUKE ISRAELHELL!” - David Frey "One week before Fukushima happened, an Israeli security team installing security equipment was there at Fukushima." - David Frey on how Israel was responsible for Fukushima. Quote
Guest Posted January 14, 2016 Report Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) A cross country anti-Obama march, related to the inbred occupation, had a bit of rough start when one organizer shot the co-founder in a drunken fight over a gun. One drunken man pulled his best friend's gun from his holster, so the friend drew his spare gun and shot him in the head. “Dear friends it’s my dearest regrets to have to share this heart breaking new (sic) with you tonight. That OUR fellow patriot and brother Charles Carter is no longer with us. He gone to be with Jesus. Today killed by a fellow patriot Vincent Smith. Who was suppose (sic) to be his brother in arms and friend” https://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/anti-obama-march-organizer-fatally-shoots-right-wing-militant-buddy-in-drunken-dispute-over-gun/#.VpbXgR3F7Vc.facebook Right wing American "patriots" living up to expectations again. You know what America needs? More guns and fewer restrictions. What a joke. Edited January 14, 2016 by Guest Quote
Argus Posted January 14, 2016 Report Posted January 14, 2016 I think you're missing their point.......until they started their protest at the refuge, they were being ignored. So if the government and courts are ignoring me I should get out a gun and start taking over territory? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 14, 2016 Report Posted January 14, 2016 There actually is a difference. The First Nations are separate nations (see if you can spot the clue in the name!) and there is international recognition of that. That's also why they consistently win in the courts. And if they block the roads the police should arrest them and throw their asses in jail. But politicians generally lack anything resembling a spine which is one of the reasons the likes of Donald Trump are so popular. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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