Liberal incompetence to cost Ontarions over $130 BILLION

[Argus]

Ontario's Auditor General released a report today on the incompetence, malfeasance, stupidity and arrogance of the Ontario Liberal party and how they have grossly mismanaged Ontario's energy industry over the past nine years. She determined Ontarions have already paid $37 BILLION more than they should have for electricity since the Liberals started destroying our energy infrastructure, and that this would grow to over $130 BILLION over the next decade and a half.

Of the money already thrown down the toilet, over $9 BILLION has been wasted on the colossal mismanagement of the "green energy" programs by Liberal zealots who ignored planning rules, ignored the advise of bureaucrats, and rammed their plans through without any care for the costs. The ability of Ontario rate payers to pay for all this was not, said the AG, a consideration. Power rates have skyrocketed by 70% and will continue to grow as the enormous locked in costs of heavy subsidies for green energy continue to grow. They will rise another 10% at the end of this month as a temporary subsidy program ends.

Ignoring planning and advice from energy industry officials has also produced a huge surplus of energy, which Ontario is forced to dump at cut rate prices. That surplus is already equal to the entire electricity needs of the province of Manitoba.

But at least they've been putting billions into updating the electricity grid, right? Nope. The AG warns that Ontario's electricity grid continues to deteriorate

In her report, the auditor general said the reliability of Hydro One, which owns the province’s transmission grid and also serves as a local distribution company for 1.3 million customers in rural and northern Ontario, has “worsened considerably.” Its distribution system was consistently one of the least reliable in Canada, said Lysyk. “There is a risk of more power failures because Hydro One is not replacing transmission assets that have exceeded their planned useful service life,” she said.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-hydro-customers-paid-billions-because-liberals-ignored-own-plans-for-new-generation-projects-ag

Edited December 2, 2015 by Argus

[eyeball]

Liberal incompetence to cost Ontarions over $130 BILLION

What thie should say is; Ontarians to incompetent to control their own governance. Then it would better reflect the real problem.

And I'm not talking about voting, that's a secondary and probably even a tertiary issue.

[Ash74]

What thie should say is; Ontarians to incompetent to control their own governance. Then it would better reflect the real problem.

And I'm not talking about voting, that's a secondary and probably even a tertiary issue.

I would love to defend my fellow Ontario people from this insulting statement but I really have no argument.

But what would you have us do?

The OPP will continue to do nothing except pay lip service to the law while claiming the three current investigations are still ongoing.

The former premier just published a book explaining his sins and how it was all the governments fault for the mistakes and that it is not his fault because he didn't know about them till it was too late.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/chris-selley-dalton-mcguinty-a-man-of-many-self-serving-regrets

What a great place this province once was.

[eyeball]

I would love to defend my fellow Ontario people from this insulting statement but I really have no argument.

Don't take it personally, it's a very widespread human problem that's probably bedeviled us since we first climbed down from the trees.

I have a few thoughts on how to begin addressing the problem but rational anarchists are even more scary than your government apparently.

[Boges]

Yeah but Hudak would have been soooooo much worse.

[Argus]

What thie should say is; Ontarians to incompetent to control their own governance. Then it would better reflect the real problem.

I agree that Ontarions are responsible for this. They voted for the party offering wine and cheese which told them to forget about problems like deficits and their history of lies, corruption and incompetence.

On the other hand, all of Canada just did the same thing, so we'll see how badly the federal Liberals screw us all over in the coming years.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Yeah but Hudak would have been soooooo much worse.

There's going to be a reckoning coming. Ontario is getting deeper and deeper into the hole, and the way the Liberals have mismanaged our energy system means Ontarions have even less money to spend, even as it has damaged manufacturing and other energy intensive industries. You can only go along so long before the time comes where the piper has to be paid whether you like it or not. I expect the first victims are going to be the ones who benefited most from this government, and supported it and helped keep it in power: public servants. Mass layoffs and across the board salary cuts of 20-30% is not unlikely, depending on how bad our finances get.

[Boges]

There's going to be a reckoning coming. Ontario is getting deeper and deeper into the hole, and the way the Liberals have mismanaged our energy system means Ontarions have even less money to spend, even as it has damaged manufacturing and other energy intensive industries. You can only go along so long before the time comes where the piper has to be paid whether you like it or not. I expect the first victims are going to be the ones who benefited most from this government, and supported it and helped keep it in power: public servants. Mass layoffs and across the board salary cuts of 20-30% is not unlikely, depending on how bad our finances get.

The Public Servants should bare the brunt of this government's mismanagement.

If all the radio ads I hear from outraged public service unions every day mean anything, they already are feeling the pinch. Then again it could also mean they're so awash with cash they gotta spend money on something.

The only thing that gives me room for optimism is that it appears the cyclical nature of Oil pricing is swinging back to keeping our dollar down so that Alberta isn't the boomtown it was and some of the money can actually come back to Canada's heartland, we'll see I guess.

But if Climate Nazi's have their way, doing anything that involves energy (which is pretty much everything) will become increasingly more unaffordable.

[Keepitsimple]

Could the rush to privatize Hydro One be because there has been so much deterioration of the delivery infrastructure that this corrupt, incompetent government would have to raise rates even more to fund its upgrade? So sell it off and let the private sector raise the rates, so it's no longer "the government's fault"? Sure the government "regulates" rates - but it's a toothless regulator. When the Private Hydro One starts "investing" - the rates go up - with a tidy profit thrown in. So many people in this Liberal government should be fired or put in jail.

[Argus]

The excess costs due to the Ontario Liberals' incompetence amounts to approximately $1,188 per family every year!

Let’s try to put those numbers in context. Electricity overpriced by $170-billion is equivalent to $12,326 in excess costs for every man, woman and child in Ontario. Over 27 years, that averages out to $457 per person, per year. According to Statistics Canada, the average Ontario household has 2.6 people, so for the typical family, we’re talking about a power utility bill roughly $1,188 higher than it should be – every year.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/ontarios-liberals-have-completely-broken-the-electricity-system/article27571292/

No cost-benefit analysis, lack of transparency, no interim reporting, incomplete technical reviews, lack of ministerial direction to agencies, arbitrary ministerial decisions, limited regulatory oversight, lack of consultation — the Ontario Liberals did all that they should not have been doing and nothing that they should have been doing.

Is anything right about Ontario’s electricity system? If there is, Ontario’s attorney general does not appear to have found it.

http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/terence-corcoran-ontario-liberals-power-regime-a-fiasco

[Argus]

Could the rush to privatize Hydro One be because there has been so much deterioration of the delivery infrastructure that this corrupt, incompetent government would have to raise rates even more to fund its upgrade? So sell it off and let the private sector raise the rates, so it's no longer "the government's fault"? Sure the government "regulates" rates - but it's a toothless regulator. When the Private Hydro One starts "investing" - the rates go up - with a tidy profit thrown in. So many people in this Liberal government should be fired or put in jail.

You can be sure it's not being done because it's in the interest of Ontario. Several high profile think tanks have already said as much. This will cost us.

As for increased costs, you can bet that's coming.

What’s more, Hydro One is in rough shape, with ever-increasing numbers of power outages and aging equipment “at very high risk of failing” that needs $4.472-billion worth of repairs – even as the province is selling 60 per cent of the company to the private sector.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontarians-paid-37-billion-above-market-price-for-electricity-over-eight-years-ag/article27560753/

[Smoke]

Where's all the left wingers and Liberal supporters....don't see any of them commenting. Must be in hiding, hoping this will just go away.

Haha, and Bob Chirelli says his number one priority is bringing down the cost consumers are paying. Up over 70% since 2006....looks like he's doing a great job

[Smoke]

There really should be several criminal investigations going on, but when the police are in the back pocket of the Libs.......well....

[Boges]

Where's all the left wingers and Liberal supporters....don't see any of them commenting. Must be in hiding, hoping this will just go away.

Haha, and Bob Chirelli says his number one priority is bringing down the cost consumers are paying. Up over 70% since 2006....looks like he's doing a great job

There'll be crickets.

Only thing they can do is blame Mike Harris or say Tim Hudak would have been worse.

[overthere]

In Alberta we are watching the Ontario electricity scenario, carefully noting all the mistakes made, and copying all of them plus adding some of our own so we too can drive industry out permanently and burden future generations with massive debt.

Thanks for the leadership, it saves us a lot of time, though getting to $300 billion in the hole takes us a little while when you start from $zero debt. Please be patient.

[Ash74]

There'll be crickets.

Only thing they can do is blame Mike Harris or say Tim Hudak would have been worse.

The Ontario Liberals are now blaming it on the Conservatives

Lysyk’s report, issued Wednesday, is stuffed with examples of poor thinking, bad planning and rampant mismanagement. Yet once again the province’s response has been an enormous shrug of the shoulders, as if heaping billions of dollars in extra costs on Ontarians — $37 billion more than necessary between 2006 and 2014 according to Lysyk – is no big deal. The last time Lysyk took the government to task for its fumbles over the power grid, Energy Minister Bob Chiarelli dismissively suggested she didn’t understand the electricity business. On Wednesday he once again brushed off her findings, blaming previous governments (although the Liberals have been in power since 2003) and insisting Ontarians support energy conservation.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/kelly-mcparland-ontarios-energy-mismanagement-should-feed-fears-about-its-cap-and-trade-plans

If it were not so brutal and damaging for so many people this whole thing would almost be funny.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Ash74

[Bob Macadoo]

The Ontario Liberals are now blaming it on the Conservatives

You're right.....this waste is all theirs.....this is not a result of Eve's deregulation fiasco. That's still there but this is sickening.

The last time Lysyk took the government to task for its fumbles over the power grid, Energy Minister Bob Chiarelli dismissively suggested she didn’t understand the electricity business.

Although this is true, she doesn't understand what she's talking about and she likes to grandstand without knowledge just like Marin, it doesn't make some of the things she audited any less disgusting.

All I will say with respect to the Green Energy crap.....they told us they were going to do it......charge high in the beginning to "attract" the big players to bring innovation jobs. We shouldn't be surprised by this just asking where those jobs went.

[Ash74]

You're right.....this waste is all theirs.....this is not a result of Eve's deregulation fiasco. That's still there but this is sickening.

Although this is true, she doesn't understand what she's talking about and she likes to grandstand without knowledge just like Marin, it doesn't make some of the things she audited any less disgusting.

All I will say with respect to the Green Energy crap.....they told us they were going to do it......charge high in the beginning to "attract" the big players to bring innovation jobs. We shouldn't be surprised by this just asking where those jobs went.

Lysyk seems more qualified for Chiarelli's job than he does.

She has much experience with hydro while Bob seems only to be able to raise prices and make excuses.

There was that nasty issue where he tried to deflect her abilities to understand the ministry and that ended up with him running for cover.

[socialist]

You're right.....this waste is all theirs.....this is not a result of Eve's deregulation fiasco. That's still there but this is sickening.

Although this is true, she doesn't understand what she's talking about and she likes to grandstand without knowledge just like Marin, it doesn't make some of the things she audited any less disgusting.

All I will say with respect to the Green Energy crap.....they told us they were going to do it......charge high in the beginning to "attract" the big players to bring innovation jobs. We shouldn't be surprised by this just asking where those jobs went.

One of the main reasons Ontario's economy is stalled is everyone is worried about Wynne's soaring Hydro, her shiny new carbon taxes and her new pension plan tax.

[Boges]

With some encouragement from Member waldo. I actually found the report.

http://www.auditor.on.ca/en/reports_en/en15/3.05en15.pdf

[waldo]

With some encouragement from Member waldo. I actually found the report.

http://www.auditor.on.ca/en/reports_en/en15/3.05en15.pdf

ah, that's better... at least in here, in a thread, you can't twist and squirm so easily! Again, if you're going to make repeated statements about the cost of Ontario electricity, you should be able to delineate that cost by generating source. You AG link does not provide support for your repeated claims. Keep trying - try harder!

[Boges]

Now it's a chart but on page 227 Figure 12 makes the point.

Solar Power's FIT is like 40¢. That's twice the market rate for electricity!

[waldo]

Now it's a chart but on page 227 Figure 12 makes the point.

Solar Power's FIT is like 40¢. That's twice the market rate for electricity!

so... in the context of Ontario electricity costs associated with ALL generating sources... you're presenting a chart showing a historical comparison of Ontario solar/wind FIT compared to U.S. average costs..... across the whole U.S. without regard to the nature of respective U.S. deployments (regardless of tariff incentive, OR NOT).

c'mon Boges! You get a bill for your electricity costs. How much of that cost reflects on Hydro, on Nuclear, on Wind, on Biofuel, on Gas/Oil, on Solar? As an Ontario resident, you're subject to an average weighted cost for electricity... one that reflects upon both wholesale pricing and Ontario's 'global adjustment'. You and you ilk are forever wailing/whining on about "Green Electricity Costs"... yet... somehow, somehow... you can't actually bring those costs forward in terms of what you see on your bill, in terms of what you actually pay. Go figure!

[Boges]

so... in the context of Ontario electricity costs associated with ALL generating sources... you're presenting a chart showing a historical comparison of Ontario solar/wind FIT compared to U.S. average costs..... across the whole U.S. without regard to the nature of respective U.S. deployments (regardless of tariff incentive, OR NOT).

c'mon Boges! You get a bill for your electricity costs. How much of that cost reflects on Hydro, on Nuclear, on Wind, on Biofuel, on Gas/Oil, on Solar? As an Ontario resident, you're subject to an average weighted cost for electricity... one that reflects upon both wholesale pricing and Ontario's 'global adjustment'. You and you ilk are forever wailing/whining on about "Green Electricity Costs"... yet... somehow, somehow... you can't actually bring those costs forward in terms of what you see on your bill, in terms of what you actually pay. Go figure!

The FIT is relevant to determining the actual price. I don't know how much green energy is compared to the price of producing energy through natural gas. I'd imagine it's much more but that's to be expected.

What bugs me is that the government didn't do diligence to make sure the price they were paying for Green Energy was competitive.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Boges

[overthere]

Now it's a chart but on page 227 Figure 12 makes the point.

Solar Power's FIT is like 40¢. That's twice the market rate for electricity!

The regular market price in ON is $.20 per kwh???!!!.

No wonder industry is packing up the factories and moving anywhere else.

Absolutely f**king clueless,and we get the govt we deserve.