So Much For Tory Fiscal Stewardship

ReeferMadness · November 14, 2015

Oh, that changes everything.

oops wrong thread.

SpankyMcFarland · November 14, 2015

Maybe it's just my sunny ways marijuana for all approach to life but...could we possibly make an effort to be a little more generous, humorous and self-effacing on this website? When all is said and done, we are just random loons on the Net and we should do our utmost to welcome new opinions, especially if we don't agree with them. Compared to Irish and British sites I dip into, the animosities here seem to get very entrenched. Let's have a little more friendly banter between the teams. Try to make fun of yourselves first, mkay?

Edited November 14, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland

angrypenguin · November 14, 2015

Oh, I see. Your premise is that Harper's ingenious economic strategy of banking our economic future on a single volatile commodity whose price is known to manipulated by corporations and cartels somehow failed? How could that be? Harper is such an economic genius.

Your premise is nonsense anyway. As I said, the GDP has recovered. So, if our revenues haven't it's because of Harper's idiotic tax cuts.

I know it's tough for the faithful to see their deeply held beliefs in their greatest prophet knocked down one by one....

Idiotic tax cuts.

Really? Really? The word idiotic should never be next to the words tax and cut.

:rolleyes:

Smallc · November 15, 2015

Really? Really? The word idiotic should never be next to the words tax and cut.

It should when there are better tax cuts available.

Smoke · November 15, 2015

Yep, Complain about Harper's fiscal record, but it's OK for Trudeau to spend like a drunken sailor. Typical drivel from the left.

msj · November 15, 2015

Yep, Complain about Harper's fiscal record, but it's OK for Trudeau to spend like a drunken sailor. Typical drivel from the left.

But the excess spending can be stopped, and in fact is proposed to be stopped. So it is not structural.

The GST tax cut, OTOH, is structural since it persists into the future until such time as growth from other tax revenues pick up the slack and/or spending cuts reduce the deficit caused by such a cut.

Given that CPC budget deficits continued on and on despite CPC propaganda that Canada was doing the "best of the G7" with respect to the recession I think it is reasonable to conclude the GST tax cut was indeed "idiotic."

It is also idiotic for other reasons too as already mentioned by others above.

angrypenguin · November 15, 2015

But the excess spending can be stopped, and in fact is proposed to be stopped. So it is not structural.

The GST tax cut, OTOH, is structural since it persists into the future until such time as growth from other tax revenues pick up the slack and/or spending cuts reduce the deficit caused by such a cut.

Given that CPC budget deficits continued on and on despite CPC propaganda that Canada was doing the "best of the G7" with respect to the recession I think it is reasonable to conclude the GST tax cut was indeed "idiotic."

It is also idiotic for other reasons too as already mentioned by others above.

The tax cuts occurred prior to the 2008 meltdown. People didn't know.

msj · November 15, 2015

The tax cuts occurred prior to the 2008 meltdown. People didn't know.

I agree that people didn't know about the Great Recession coming.

But there were many critics of the cut for many good reasons: it makes the GST less effective, a cut to come taxes like what the Liberals do from 2000 through 2005 was an effective way to cut taxes, other economic wonk reasons etc.....

The original timeline was to cut to 5% by 2011 but it became politically expedient to cut it in 2007.

The CPC did way too much of this political expediency policy, imo.

There is a lesson here that I hope the LPC will heed.

Wilber · November 16, 2015

Personally I would have liked the revenue go to debt reduction rather than tax cuts but a real commitment to debt reduction doesn't seem to be in any politician's DNA.

msj · November 16, 2015

The good news (if you are able to see any kind of silver lining); Trudeau proposes to:

Ensure that our fiscal plan is sustainable by meeting our fiscal anchors of balancing the budget in 2019/20 and continuing to reduce the federal debt-to-GDP ratio throughout our mandate.

The bad news (from your point of view): Repeal the Federal Balanced Budget Act.

Per his letter to Finance Minister Morneau.

Wilber · November 16, 2015

The good news (if you are able to see any kind of silver lining); Trudeau proposes to:

Ensure that our fiscal plan is sustainable by meeting our fiscal anchors of balancing the budget in 2019/20 and continuing to reduce the federal debt-to-GDP ratio throughout our mandate.

The bad news (from your point of view): Repeal the Federal Balanced Budget Act.

Per his letter to Finance Minister Morneau.

More weasel words. Reducing debt to GDP ratio is not reducing debt. It just means that as the GDP increases, we can keep borrowing more without ever paying it back. Yippee, we will make sure we can afford to pay (and will) many times more than what something cost. Aren't we wonderful.

msj · November 16, 2015

Well, it was good enough for the CPC...oh, no, maybe not since they increased our debt load so much .....bwahhaaaaaaa (my feeble attempt at a Dr. Evil laugh).

Wilber · November 16, 2015

Well, it was good enough for the CPC...oh, no, maybe not since they increased our debt load so much .....bwahhaaaaaaa (my feeble attempt at a Dr. Evil laugh).

Seems to be good enough for all politicians when it comes up against getting elected. Not so good for the rest of us.

SpankyMcFarland · November 20, 2015

The problem is long-term. We need to lessen our dependence on resource-based industries and save more when the price is high.

CITIZEN_2015 · November 20, 2015

Harper conservatives lied by over 5 billion.

Through usual conservative manipulations and sale of assets and lies we were supposed to have a surplus of 2.3 billion dollars but now a fiscal update today only after new government in power for two weeks indicates a deficit of 3 billion.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/morneau-fiscal-update-1.3327571

Accountability Now · November 20, 2015

Harper conservatives lied by over 5 billion.

Through usual conservative manipulations and sale of assets and lies we were supposed to have a surplus of 2.3 billion dollars but now a fiscal update today only after new government in power for two weeks indicates a deficit of 3 billion.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/morneau-fiscal-update-1.3327571

Tell you what...go and look up the words forecast and projections in the dictionary and then maybe you'll realize how stupid your comment about lies is

Triple M · November 20, 2015

Where does the 3 billion deficit come from???

PBO was projecting a surplus just 10 days ago

And the most up-to-date fiscal numbers show a surplus of 2.9 billion

Accountability Now · November 20, 2015

Where does the 3 billion deficit come from???PBO was projecting a surplus just 10 days agoAnd the most up-to-date fiscal numbers show a surplus of 2.9 billion

All to do with how they forecast

CITIZEN_2015 · November 20, 2015

Tell you what...go and look up the words forecast and projections in the dictionary and then maybe you'll realize how stupid your comment about lies is

Tell you what...go and look up the word manipulations in the dictionary and then maybe you'll realize how stupid your comment is

Edited November 20, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

scribblet · November 20, 2015

Where does the 3 billion deficit come from??? PBO was projecting a surplus just 10 days ago And the most up-to-date fiscal numbers show a surplus of 2.9 billion

There isn't one, it's the Liberals making stuff up in order to make themselves look good. Is there anyone surprised that they would pull a stunt like this.

CITIZEN_2015 · November 20, 2015

Where does the 3 billion deficit come from??? PBO was projecting a surplus just 10 days ago And the most up-to-date fiscal numbers show a surplus of 2.9 billion

I guess they couldn't sell as much assets as they hoped for to artificially balance the budget and hiding figures just before election call. Sell of GM shares was not enough not to mention purposely up forecasting the growth this year and down forecasting expenses (called manipulations of figures and accounts or lies whichever you prefer).

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/canada-to-sell-final-73-4-million-shares-of-gm-from-bailout/article23814942/

Edited November 20, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

Smallc · November 20, 2015

There isn't one, it's the Liberals making stuff up in order to make themselves look good. Is there anyone surprised that they would pull a stunt like this.

How do you know who is playing the stunt?

Accountability Now · November 21, 2015

Tell you what...go and look up the word manipulations in the dictionary and then maybe you'll realize how stupid your comment is

Wow...what an excellent rebuttal. I can post the definitions for you but that would be like cheating. The article you posted goes into depth talking about said forecasts but the idea is clearly lost on you

Wilber · November 21, 2015

How do you know who is playing the stunt?

It was an election year, they all do. This was as predictable as rain in Tofino. We are now being set up for deficits well in excess of the 10B claimed during the election.

Wilber · November 21, 2015

Wow...what an excellent rebuttal. I can post the definitions for you but that would be like cheating. The article you posted goes into depth talking about said forecasts but the idea is clearly lost on you

Quite true, some of us actually read the whole thing.