CITIZEN_2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Wow...what an excellent rebuttal. I can post the definitions for you but that would be like cheating. The article you posted goes into depth talking about said forecasts but the idea is clearly lost on you Yes I can forecast too. I will have enough saving so that I can spent the entire month of December in Paris in 5 star hotels and while at it can take my entire family and friends too, then pay all my debt early next year and still I will have significant savings in my account end of next year!!. Oh just one thing I forecast to receive a raise of 1000% next year. The so called growth forecast of 2 percent when everyone knew the world economy is slowing was unrealistic to say the least and so was the so called forecast of Canadian dollar at 83 cents!!!!!. Btw, you attacked my comment first, I just responded back exact same way and got the warning!!!!! (you called it rebuff wasn't meant to be a rebuff but responding in kind). Edited November 21, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I guess they couldn't sell as much assets as they hoped for to artificially balance the budget and hiding figures just before election call. Sell of GM shares was not enough not to mention purposely up forecasting the growth this year and down forecasting expenses (called manipulations of figures and accounts or lies whichever you prefer). http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/canada-to-sell-final-73-4-million-shares-of-gm-from-bailout/article23814942/ The 2015-16 budget was for 290 billion. The projected deficit now is at 3 billion. That is 1% of the total budget....in other words a rounding error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) The 2015-16 budget was for 290 billion. The projected deficit now is at 3 billion. That is 1% of the total budget....in other words a rounding error. Ha ha thanks for the evening laugh. Is that what they call it these days?. 3 billion dollar rounding error. I wish I had a very tiny portion of that error in my account lol!!!!! And btw, the difference is 5.2 billion NOT 3 billion. And they made this so called rounding error in ELECTION YEAR!!!!!! What a coincident!!!!! Edited November 21, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 From that article the current forecast is based on a 79 cent dollar and $50 oil. How realistic is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Yes I can forecast too. I will have enough saving so that I can spent the entire month of December in Paris in 5 star hotels and while at it may be take my entire family and friends too, then pay all my debt early next year and stii I will have significant savings in my account end of next year!!. Oh just one thing I forecast to receive a raise of 1000% next year. The so called growth forecast of 2 percent when everyone knew the world economy is slowing was unrealistic to say the least and so was the so called forecast of Canadian dollar at 83 cents!!!!!. You go ahead and balance a 290 billion dollar budget that involves many factors involving bothe revenues and expenditures and see if you come within 1%. I love it when I'm within 5% on my estimates for business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Ha ha thanks for the evening laugh. Is that what they call it these days. 3 billion dollar rounding error. I wish I had a very tiny portion of that error in my account lol!!!!! And btw, the difference is 5.2 billion NOT 3 billion. No...clearly you have provided the comedy but not understanding what the article that you posted is saying. These are all projections. When the final numbers come in then you can possibly criticize how things are spent. Keep in mind...a good third of this year will be spent with Liberals in control. Your article is already showing a 2 billion dollar difference from their account versus the PBO which came out just days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) You go ahead and balance a 290 billion dollar budget that involves many factors involving bothe revenues and expenditures and see if you come within 1%. I love it when I'm within 5% on my estimates for business I know THIS that they got it right all other years EXCEPT the ELECTION year Edited November 21, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Actually, the adjusted deficit has only been within 1Billion of the forecast deficit three times since 1994. Two of those times it was under Harper, the other under Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) From that article the current forecast is based on a 79 cent dollar and $50 oil. How realistic is that? The most important role player in every budget is the growth and 1.2% for 2015-2016 is very realistic however I agree that the 79 cent part is not realistic but lower dollar helps exports and hence more tax revenues so lower deficit?. Not sure about 50 dollar oil. So far I think the average for the year has been 45 than 50 but I could be wrong. Edited November 21, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) So their projections are BS to? The most important role player in every budget is the growth and 1.2% for 2015-2016 is very realistic however I agree that the 79 cent part is not realistic but lower dollar helps exports and hence more tax revenues so lower deficit?. Not sure about 50 dollar oil. So far I think the average for the year has been 45 than 50 but I could be wrong. So forecasting a higher dollar than actual is dishonest if you are a Conservative government but smart if you are a Liberal government. Could it be that their forecasts contain a certain amount of BS to? Edited November 21, 2015 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I know THIS that they got it right all other years EXCEPT the ELECTION year Do you have a citation to back this quote up or would you prefer to retract this statement? Looking at the 2013-14 and 2012-13 numbers alone I can see you're incorrect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 There isn't one, it's the Liberals making stuff up in order to make themselves look good. Is there anyone surprised that they would pull a stunt like this. Pulling a stunt...you mean fudging or misrepresenting the public's financial books. Isn't that a crime? Shouldn't it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 It was an election year, they all do. This was as predictable as rain in Tofino. We are now being set up for deficits well in excess of the 10B claimed during the election. Again I ask, why isn't this behaviour treated as a crime? This is embezzlement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Actually, the adjusted deficit has only been within 1Billion of the forecast deficit three times since 1994. Two of those times it was under Harper, the other under Martin. This doesn't surprise me with all the factors involved in government revenue and expenditures...especially if those factors are outside of our borders (i.e. Price of oil and the FX of the CDN dollar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Again I ask, why isn't this behaviour treated as a crime? This is embezzlement. How is it embezzlement? Can you balance your personal annual budget to within 1%, 12 months after you made it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 This doesn't surprise me with all the factors involved in government revenue and expenditures...especially if those factors are outside of our borders (i.e. Price of oil and the FX of the CDN dollar) Doesn't surprise me either. I'm actually surprised when they do manage it. Unfortunately, almost all the differences are on a deficit side, not a surplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 How is it embezzlement? Can you balance your personal annual budget to within 1%, 12 months after you made it? You regard "being set up for deficits" and balancing a personal annual budget as one and the same thing? You think a judge in a court would? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 You regard "being set up for deficits" and balancing a personal annual budget as one and the same thing? You think a judge in a court would? Why are you having a fit because the Conservative projection was out by a couple of billion and not when the Liberals tell you they are going to run a 10 billion deficit, real numbers to follow? Embezzlement is stealing, over spending is not, it is just poor policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Embezzlement is stealing, over spending is not, it is just poor policy. At least you understand this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Do you have a citation to back this quote up or would you prefer to retract this statement? Looking at the 2013-14 and 2012-13 numbers alone I can see you're incorrect I have followed budgets and to the best of my memory it has never been a forecast more than 5 billion dollars to the upside. The fact that it happened in an election year makes it a lot worse. Paul Martin did have a few multi-billion dollar miscalculations on the downside resulting in lower deficits or higher surpluses but I don't remember a 5+ billion forecast on the upside overestimating tax revenues (maybe before I start counting like in the 80's?). I don't think there is any citation keeping track of what was forecast and what we ended up with anywhere. Edited November 21, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 So their projections are BS to? So forecasting a higher dollar than actual is dishonest if you are a Conservative government but smart if you are a Liberal government. Could it be that their forecasts contain a certain amount of BS to? Yes it could but when that happens in an election year and so much then one might say it could be a lie or manipulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Why are you having a fit because the Conservative projection was out by a couple of billion and not when the Liberals tell you they are going to run a 10 billion deficit, real numbers to follow? You misunderstand, I'm curious about why conservatives aren't treating this Liberal "stunt" as a potentially criminal manipulation of the public's books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 You misunderstand, I'm curious about why conservatives aren't treating this Liberal "stunt" as a potentially criminal manipulation of the public's books. Because it isn't criminal, it is political and they aren't manipulating the books, they are just making questionable estimates which you can choose to believe, or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) At least you understand this. Embezzlement is an act of dishonestly withholding assets for the purpose of conversion (theft) of such assets, by one or more persons to whom the assets were entrusted, either to be held or to be used for specific purposes. Wiki Criminal conversion is a crime, limited to parts of common law systems outside of England and Wales, of exerting unauthorized use or control of someone else's property, at a minimum personal property, but in some jurisdictions also applying to types of real property, such as land (to squatting and/or holding over) and/or to patents, design rights and trademarks. It differs from theft in that it does not include the element of intending to deprive the owner of permanent possession of that property. As such, it is a lesser offense than the crime of theft. Criminal conversion specifies a type of conversion in that it involves criminal law, not civil law. Wiki It seems pretty dodgy to me. Edited November 21, 2015 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Remember that Parliament makes the law and they aren't going to make one that will put them in jail if a budget is wrong. For what it is worth (questionable) the Conservatives did pass a balanced budget act which the Liberals have said they will scrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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