Rona Ambrose Elected Tory Interim Leader

[Argus]

I want to see debates like this within the Conservative Party:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11985483/EU-referendum-David-Cameron-sets-out-his-demands-to-Europe-live.html

And what about the Liberal part and NDP? When was the last time you saw an open disagreement like this from either of them?

[Argus]

Well, first off, how surprising that the RCMP would publish a report that paints themselves in a positive light.

Their communications with the public during the Dziekanski murder incident and the Braidwood Inquiry proved them to be pathological liars

I've made my opinion fairly obvious on bad cops, and on those four in particular. That being said, paranoia about the mounties is misplaced in a case where they're simply releasing statistics on crime solution rates. Such numbers can be very easily validated or refuted, so they'd have to be nuts to lie about them.

Former BC AG Wally Oppal led a public inquiry into the investigation, and concluded that it was painfully obvious that these disappearances were not treated with any urgency by the police. And Oppal pins that not on race, but on class: these cases were not taken seriously because they affected people on the bottom rung of society.

Police have never taken disappearances, or even murders as seriously when the victims were prostitutes and street people. That's not something likely to stop as long as police budgets are limited, which they are.

This inquiry will cost tens of millions of dollars and will tell us nothing we don't already know. There is violence on the reserves because of unemployment, poverty, alcohol and drug abuse. That violence carries over to natives who leave the reserves and wind up involved with petty crime in the cities.

I notice, btw, that the pressure from the chiefs for this has diminished considerably since the RCMP released stats showing 70% of aboriginal women were killed by their aboriginal male partners. I think they were just hoping to use this as another way to browbeat bleeding heart white liberals into giving them more money, and now its starting to look like it won't accomplish that.

[kimmy]

I've made my opinion fairly obvious on bad cops, and on those four in particular. That being said, paranoia about the mounties is misplaced in a case where they're simply releasing statistics on crime solution rates. Such numbers can be very easily validated or refuted, so they'd have to be nuts to lie about them.

Well, statistics only tell part of the story. In regard to the Pickton murders, for example, those disappearances can now be classified as "solved", even though the police negligence and incompetence on that file was extraordinary.

But yes, as I said, it strikes me as a race issue and not a class issue.Nonetheless, there's little doubt in my mind that police handling of these cases will be one of the prime issues that gets scrutinized, and I expect that like the Pickton inquiry it'll reveal that these cases were handled with utter disinterest by the police, and they're going to take a beating. And, my personal hunch is that this is the real reason the Harper regime was resistant to support an inquiry.

-k

[angrypenguin]

I've made my opinion fairly obvious on bad cops, and on those four in particular. That being said, paranoia about the mounties is misplaced in a case where they're simply releasing statistics on crime solution rates. Such numbers can be very easily validated or refuted, so they'd have to be nuts to lie about them.

Police have never taken disappearances, or even murders as seriously when the victims were prostitutes and street people. That's not something likely to stop as long as police budgets are limited, which they are.

This inquiry will cost tens of millions of dollars and will tell us nothing we don't already know. There is violence on the reserves because of unemployment, poverty, alcohol and drug abuse. That violence carries over to natives who leave the reserves and wind up involved with petty crime in the cities.

I notice, btw, that the pressure from the chiefs for this has diminished considerably since the RCMP released stats showing 70% of aboriginal women were killed by their aboriginal male partners. I think they were just hoping to use this as another way to browbeat bleeding heart white liberals into giving them more money, and now its starting to look like it won't accomplish that.

This was never about finding new information. It was about getting the aboriginal vote and for looking good. Harper himself said it was a waste of money (as per Ibbotson) to be going on an inquiry that will not tell us anything new.

[SpankyMcFarland]

And what about the Liberal part and NDP? When was the last time you saw an open disagreement like this from either of them?

I'd like to see this from every party but particularly from the party in power, now the Liberals. This is how parliamentary democracy is supposed to work.

[SpankyMcFarland]

This was never about finding new information. It was about getting the aboriginal vote and for looking good. Harper himself said it was a waste of money (as per Ibbotson) to be going on an inquiry that will not tell us anything new.

I would be very surprised if no new facts at all are found by this inquiry.

[Big Guy]

Found an interesting reference source on enquiries:

http://mapleleafweb.com/features/public-inquiries-canada

[Argus]

I'd like to see this from every party but particularly from the party in power, now the Liberals. This is how parliamentary democracy is supposed to work.

I don't disagree, but it's not going to happen. The first Liberal MP who speaks out against party policy will find his office moved to a windowless concrete room next to the furnace.

[SpankyMcFarland]

I don't disagree, but it's not going to happen. The first Liberal MP who speaks out against party policy will find his office moved to a windowless concrete room next to the furnace.

That tendency will certainly persist. I'm prepared to give JT a term to see if he is any better.

[ToadBrother]

I don't disagree, but it's not going to happen. The first Liberal MP who speaks out against party policy will find his office moved to a windowless concrete room next to the furnace.

I think we'll just have to wait and see. He's committed to unleashing his MPs, but obviously there will be limits. I have a feeling backbenchers will have more freedom than they did under Harper or Chretien, but I wouldn't be willing to bet more than $10 that that was so. Whether that's because I'm dubious of how strong that commitment is, or just because I'm cynical is hard to say.

[The_Squid]

Obviously MPs won't be "unleashed". There has to be some party discipline for the party to work effectively. It has ever been thus.

That doesn't mean:

• the gov't needs to be run out of the PMO
• every message needs to be micromanaged to death
• MPs can't give interviews
• The PM never gives an unscripted press conference
• etc, etc...

Edited November 13, 2015 by The_Squid

[-TSS-]

I hate the way how defeated Prime Ministers quit being party-leaders as well immediately after the election-defeat as if being leader of opposition was beneath them. Was Harper's term as party-leader up?

[ToadBrother]

I hate the way how defeated Prime Ministers quit being party-leaders as well immediately after the election-defeat as if being leader of opposition was beneath them. Was Harper's term as party-leader up?

Are you kidding? If Harper had attempted to stay, it would almost certainly have lead to a caucus revolt. He'd been leader of the Conservative Party for eleven years and before that leader of the Canadian Alliance for a year and a half. That means he was leader of Canadian conservatives for thirteen years or so. Even if the Tories had won, he would almost have certainly bowed out sometime this term.