Canada Relations With Israel

[SpankyMcFarland]

If you have met many Iranians, you will know they are no petty people. Some are famous businessmen and philanthropists in Canada. Iran already has a large middle class with a high proportion of female graduates..There will be significant investment potential for Canadian companies in that country over the next few decades.

[dre]

You mean no need to stand up for what's right?

Disengagement isn't standing up for anything. We have embassies in all kinds of places. And if you consider Iran a problem and a potential adversary then you DEFINITELY want an embassy there. They aren't just about diplomatic relations, they are intelligence outposts, and are there to provide aid to Canadians travelling or living in those countries.

Even while the USSR was building thousands of nuclear weapons designed to kill us, Canada maintained an embassy in Moscow.

[Argus]

If you have met many Iranians,

I am talking about Iran, the country.

[SpankyMcFarland]

I am talking about Iran, the country.

Have you met many Iranians? Do you call their country scummy to their face? In my experience, they are pretty easy-going people but that might raise a few hackles.

Edited November 1, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland

[Argus]

Disengagement isn't standing up for anything. We have embassies in all kinds of places. And if you consider Iran a problem and a potential adversary then you DEFINITELY want an embassy there. They aren't just about diplomatic relations, they are intelligence outposts, and are there to provide aid to Canadians travelling or living in those countries.

Drivel. Canada, despite the fevered dreams of the Left, was never a player in the middle east, not an honest player, not a middle power, not a player of any kind. Just what intelligence or influence do you think Canada would gain from having an embassy in Iran that would be of any use to us? What intelligence or influence do you imagine we would gain that the real players in that region don't already have? And what reason does any Canadian have for traveling in a brutal police state like Iran?

Even while the USSR was building thousands of nuclear weapons designed to kill us, Canada maintained an embassy in Moscow.

Russia is a world power. I don't suggest closing our embassy there, though I would like to close down or at least downsize their consulates in Canada, which are nothing more than spy shops anyway.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Have you met many Iranians? Do you call their country scummy to their face? In my experience, they are pretty easy-going people but that might raise a few hackles.

Why would I go to Iran?

[Topaz]

Think maybe Harper would want a job as an ambassador?

[CITIZEN_2015]

Moderators? Scummy?

Whatever about that, Iran is not little, sparsely populated or a recent phenomenon.

Yes it appears that this guy can get away with just about everything around here and by the way the only scummy country is the state of Israel and its murderous regime who indiscriminately murders defenseless innocent women and children. And Iran is no little it is a major regional power and soon to be a superpower and will teach these guys a lesson they will never forget.

As for the thread Trudeau has said it will re-establish relations with Iran. Even Britain has now embassy in Tehran and vice versa. Engagement is best to bring about democratic changes as the US realized eventually and support of democratic forces in Iran is essential rather than the stupid policy of closing the doors which the former regime in Canada took.

Canada should maintain relations with Israel based on equality and mutual respect but not to become slave to Israeli government or a BLIND supporter of its brutal actions as Harper regime did.

Edited November 1, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

Have you met many Iranians? Do you call their country scummy to their face? In my experience, they are pretty easy-going people but that might raise a few hackles.

I have met many Iranians in my life. They are cool and very proud Aryan nation even those who I met (those in exile). Highly educated, very nationalistic and very open minded more so than many other nationals I have met also in my life (in universities, work places, while travelling). Any one who may call their country scummy better run for his life.

Canada should maintain relations with Israel too but Canada must not be slaved to Israeli policies or unconditionally support the brutal actions of state of Israel as the former regime in Canada did when Harper was in power Thanks God sucking up to ​Israel days is over when Canadians voted overwhelmingly to end Harper regime.

Edited November 3, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

If you have met many Iranians, you will know they are no petty people. Some are famous businessmen and philanthropists in Canada. Iran already has a large middle class with a high proportion of female graduates..There will be significant investment potential for Canadian companies in that country over the next few decades.

Hear hear.

Edited November 3, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[dre]

For what reason should we have any relationship with a scummy little country like Iran? The only thing the mullahs have is oil and dead bodies, and we need neither.

Because diplomatic relations with them might reduce the chance of conflict, because an Embassy will help us gather intelligence, and because Canadians living there or travelling there might need consular assistance.

You really don't appear to even UNDERSTAND the purpose of an embassy or diplomatic relations.

[Argus]

Because diplomatic relations with them might reduce the chance of conflict, because an Embassy will help us gather intelligence, and because Canadians living there or travelling there might need consular assistance.

You really don't appear to even UNDERSTAND the purpose of an embassy or diplomatic relations.

As I've already said, it's just silly arrogance on the part of certain people on the Left who believe we have anything to contribute there or that any embassy of ours will have any affect, one way or the other, or gather any information the real powers haven't long known.

[Argus]

Yes it appears that this guy can get away with just about everything around here and by the way the only scummy country is the state of Israel and its murderous regime who indiscriminately murders defenseless innocent women and children.

I think the bug-eyed horror so many progressives feel about Israel is the profound ignorance they have about the world around them. Most progressives know virtually nothing about the world or how people live. They don't know anything about the human rights violations or wars or abuses. All they see is the continuing stream of video from Israel, and few of them are smart enough to understand that's largely because there are four star hotels in Israel, and they won't be arrested or booted out of the country if they say anything the government doesn't like.

So they see some things going on in the way they and the Palestinians interact, know virtually nothing of the background. Nor do they think about the complexities involved (progressives generally don't understand complexities anyway), so all they see is poor brown people being abused by the big, bad military, and are outraged.

Sheer, raw ignorance is behind almost all of the Left's anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli bigotry.

[CITIZEN_2015]

I think the bug-eyed horror so many progressives feel about Israel is the profound ignorance they have about the world around them.

Sheer, raw ignorance is behind almost all of the Left's anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli bigotry.

Funny profound ignorance, sheer raw ignorance and bigotry were exact same words that fit well with the extreme right anti-Iran, anti-Muslim, anti brown people.

Edited November 1, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

IHe has beef with Iran because Iran is the only country who stands up to world powers on equal basis and which remains a threat to Israel and is getting stronger both militarily and economically every day and soon will have nuclear weapons and intercontinental missiles to take them right to the heart of his beloved country.

I have a beef with Iran because they hang teenage girls for being raped, and because they sponsor terrorism throughout the world, and because they're run by religious fanatics. If you don't that speaks volumes about just what sort of person you are. If you're able to simple ignore that without interest simply because like you, they hate Israel and repeatedly state how they will destroy them, then maybe you're the kind of person whose primary anger at Israel isn't really related to their real or alleged human rights violations and is more because there's all these JEWS there.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Argus

[CITIZEN_2015]

I have a beef with Iran because they hang teenage girls for being raped, and because they sponsor terrorism throughout the world, and because they're run by religious fanatics. If you don't that speaks volumes about just what sort of person you are. If you're able to simple ignore that without interest simply because like you, they hate Israel and repeatedly state how they will destroy them, then maybe you're the kind of person whose primary anger at Israel isn't really related to their real or alleged human rights violations and is more because there's all these JEWS there.

That is typical of Zionists that every time anyone dares to criticize state of Israel for their brutality then immediately they are accused of being anti jew. This is their weapon to silent critics and some even use the Holocaust happened 70 years ago to justify Israel's brutality against innocent women and children. To you based on your comments above my understanding is that a brown life does not worth much to cry about as long as it is not a white life?

Edited November 3, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

That is typical of Zionists that every time anyone dares to criticize state of Israel for their brutality then immediately they are accused of being anti jew.

Untrue. There are all sorts of acceptable reasons to criticize Israel. I've done it myself. But I will say I've noticed those who have no issues at all with the far worse human rights abuses of Muslim states, but focus solely on Israel and use terms like 'zionist' rouse the suspicion that human rights abuses are not really their concern at all.

To you based on your comments above my understanding is that a brown life does not worth much to cry about as long as it is not a white life?

See, this is where that vast ignorance I was speaking about comes into play. Arabs and Jews are both Semitic peoples. Most ignorant western liberals could travel to that area and, aside from the clothing, wouldn't be able to tell a Jew from an Arab. But progressive bigots insist on seeing Israelis as 'white' and Arabs as 'brown' because it fits their smug, comfortable narrative and they get to congratulate themselves for standing up for minorities. More knowledgeable people recognize that race has virtually nothing to do with the situation. Yes, some Jews are transplants from Europe. But close to half are Sephardi Jews, and I know you have no idea what that means, but look it up.

And anyone who even mildly response to your comments and attacks is suspended (in my case I was suspended for a week just before federal election day)!!!! I wonder.......!!!!!!.

Like many on the Left, I have noticed you have seem to have an extreme intolerance to those with different political and social views. Given your inability to discuss topics without getting emotional (and because you often don't know much about what is under discussion, and say so) you almost always resort to personal insults and character assassination. Maybe that would be why.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Argus

[dre]

As I've already said, it's just silly arrogance on the part of certain people on the Left who believe we have anything to contribute there or that any embassy of ours will have any affect, one way or the other, or gather any information the real powers haven't long known.

More bleating and moaning. Can you go even a single post without making fake caricatures about "the left". You have political turrets... "Blak! Yak! Left! Blah!Scummy! Blabbity blough!".

And even though Canada is a small country and not a huge player on the world stage does not mean we don't collect intelligence, and it does not mean we don't need embassies around the world. Especially in a region where our government seems intent on participating in local conflicts. Interestingly enough our Embassy in Iran and its staff was actually used to rescue a bunch of American citizens and they made a movie about it. Guess you would prefer they were all dead!

[Argus]

More bleating and moaning. Can you go even a single post without making fake caricatures about "the left".

If the people I was discussing issues with weren't themselves caricatures of the Left, and had independent thinking processes I could But since they're usually simply bleating the progressive mantra, well, it's very hard to respect that.

And even though Canada is a small country and not a huge player on the world stage does not mean we don't collect intelligence, and it does not mean we don't need embassies around the world.

To what end? What for?

Especially in a region where our government seems intent on participating in local conflicts. Interestingly enough our Embassy in Iran and its staff was actually used to rescue a bunch of American citizens and they made a movie about it. Guess you would prefer they were all dead!

Yes, but it was necessary to close that embassy because we knew the Iranians had demonstrated no interest in observing international law with respect to the sanctity of embassies. Nor have they since. I see no likelihood of our needing to provide a safehouse for Americans any time in the future. Nor do I see anything likely to be accomplished by befriending a terrorist state like Iran.

It is awfully revealing, though, to see all those who cry crocodile tears over 'human rights violations' in Israel rushing to defend Iran as a great and wonderful country.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Untrue. There are all sorts of acceptable reasons to criticize Israel. I've done it myself. But I will say I've noticed those who have no issues at all with the far worse human rights abuses of Muslim states, but focus solely on Israel and use terms like 'zionist' rouse the suspicion that human rights abuses are not really their concern at all.

See, this is where that vast ignorance I was speaking about comes into play. Arabs and Jews are both Semitic peoples. Most ignorant western liberals could travel to that area and, aside from the clothing, wouldn't be able to tell a Jew from an Arab. But progressive bigots insist on seeing Israelis as 'white' and Arabs as 'brown' because it fits their smug, comfortable narrative and they get to congratulate themselves for standing up for minorities. More knowledgeable people recognize that race has virtually nothing to do with the situation. Yes, some Jews are transplants from Europe. But close to half are Sephardi Jews, and I know you have no idea what that means, but look it up.

Like many on the Left, I have noticed you have seem to have an extreme intolerance to those with different political and social views. Given your inability to discuss topics without getting emotional (and because you often don't know much about what is under discussion, and say so) you almost always resort to personal insults and character assassination. Maybe that would be why.

You are making false statements. As an example (just one) I attacked Harper regime calling them hypnotics when they signed a 20 billion dollar deal with Saudi Arabia (last time I checked it was a Muslim country) and YOU were the one who defended the action saying that Canada needs the business and at the same time you were strongly advocating sanctions to remain on Iran. Remember?

I am aware that both Arabs and jews are of Semitic race but saying that they look alike or not possible to distinguish them from each other by looks is total exaggeration.

I only responded to your attack on that particular occasion. You called me wiping old woman and I responded that you are even worse (and people have exchanged much harsher words than this on this board without being suspended or even a warning) but you made the first move to attack me and somehow I was the one who got suspended for a week!!!!!!!!!. I wonder if this was really the reason? (which officially was the reason)!!.

Edited November 1, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

You are making false statements. As an example (just one) I attacked Harper regime calling them hypnotics when they signed a 20 billion dollar deal with Saudi Arabia (last time I checked it was a Muslim country) and YOU were the one who defended the action saying that Canada needs the business and at the same time you were strongly advocating sanctions to remain on Iran. Remember?

I don't mind selling anything to anyone. I'd even be willing to sell armored personnel carriers to Iran if I could be assured they wouldn't be using them against our allies. As to the Saudis, I'm one of those who said we should have bombed them instead of Iraq, and if I had my druthers we'd have no embassy in Saudi Arabia either. They are a brutal regime of religious fanatics who, if not directly sponsoring terrorism, certainly sponsor the religious fanaticism which causes it.

I am aware that both Arabs and jews are of Semitic race but saying that they look alike or not possible to distinguish them from each other by looks is total exaggeration.

You wouldn't be able to tell a Separdic Jew from a Palestinian without someone pointing them out, so calling this a racial thing is nothing more than sputtering nonsense.

[Michael Hardner]

Let's try to tone down the rhetoric here, thanks.

Also - I will hide and warn anyone who asks about the moderation in this thread. Questioning the moderation is fine, but there's a thread for that in the Support&Questions forum.

[dre]

If the people I was discussing issues with weren't themselves caricatures of the Left, and had independent thinking processes I could But since they're usually simply bleating the progressive mantra, well, it's very hard to respect that.

To what end? What for?

Yes, but it was necessary to close that embassy because we knew the Iranians had demonstrated no interest in observing international law with respect to the sanctity of embassies. Nor have they since. I see no likelihood of our needing to provide a safehouse for Americans any time in the future. Nor do I see anything likely to be accomplished by befriending a terrorist state like Iran.

It is awfully revealing, though, to see all those who cry crocodile tears over 'human rights violations' in Israel rushing to defend Iran as a great and wonderful country.

Yeah! The people you discuss issues with don't have an "independent thinking process".

To what end? What for?

Asked and answered. Foreign embassies provide consular servers to Canadians abroad, they are used in the collection of intelligence in collaboration with our allies, and to make sure that there's good communication between us and potential adversaries which can save Canadian lives. Whether we are a big player or not, Canada does have a middle east foreign policy and it should be based on real information.

I see no likelihood of our needing to provide a safehouse for Americans

You wouldn't have seen a need for that back then either.

[dre]

I'm one of those who said we should have bombed them instead of Iraq, and if I had my druthers we'd have no embassy in Saudi Arabia either.

That's why you wont be put in charge of intelligence gathering for a popsicle stand, never mind a country.

You keep falling back to this silly meme that suggests we should not have diplomatic relations with countries because you don't personally like their behavior. But in reality those are the most important countries to have diplomatic relations with.

Ask Ford or Taylor. Or for god sakes at least do some basic research before forming a strong opinion.

[Moonlight Graham]

Canada's relations with Israel should be friendly but neutral. Canada should support enforcing international law on all sides within the area, and a peaceful solution to the conflict. Canada should denounce aggression on all sides and support the end of Israeli settlements built in the West Bank.