Teachers Union given $1 million for Overtime.

[Boges]

Is this the type of transparency you guys are hoping for with JT?

Ontario’s Liberal government paid $1-million directly to the province’s high school teachers’ union as part of a deal to defuse one of its most explosive labour disputes, a document obtained by The Globe and Mail reveals.

In addition, the government financed raises for teachers by diverting money from a fund for special programs that help struggling students graduate.

These details are included in the confidential 42-page document that spells out the terms of a three-year labour agreement the province and the Ontario Secondary School Teachers’ Federation reached in August. The government and the union have kept the document secret, but The Globe and Mail obtained a copy.

The million-dollar payout is highly unusual: The government agreed to compensate the union for the cost of negotiations because problems with the province’s new bargaining system caused talks to drag on for so long.

So the province is allowing an incentive for dragging your feet during negotiations? And not only that but you take money away from an actual program for "the kids" and use it to line the pockets of Unions hacks?

And this was all done behind closed doors.

If this is the type of government JT's administration turns into, we're all doomed.

[Smeelious]

Ya, ya, ya...Wynne is now running the federal government.

As to the actual content

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-paid-1-million-to-union-for-labour-peace-with-high-school-teachers/article26900173/

I read your title and was like..They are paying teachers for overtime now?!? How odd...oh wait it has nothing to do with overtime.

It is however entirely inappropriate for the government to pay out the union for excessive time taken while negotiating. Imagine the precedent. "Oh, hey, lets drag out the talks so they pay us a lump sum for taking so long" Yarr.

Further I feel like they (the government) gave this to OSSTF to convince them to sign the deal to put more pressure on ETFO. ETFO isn't getting the same deal as OSSTF (because the government can't afford to) but their position is severely weakened if they are the only union holding out.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Smeelious

[poochy]

Is this the type of transparency you guys are hoping for with JT?

So the province is allowing an incentive for dragging your feet during negotiations? And not only that but you take money away from an actual program for "the kids" and use it to line the pockets of Unions hacks?

And this was all done behind closed doors.

If this is the type of government JT's administration turns into, we're all doomed.

If liberal voters actually cared about this they wouldn't have voted for her last time.

[PIK]

I heard something about her redoing some legislation that cost us 500 million ,when she did not have to?

[Keepitsimple]

It's now up to $2.5 million. They also paid a million to the Catholic School Board union and $500K to the French school board.

These are taxpayer dollars - being used as bribes.....but the politically correct term is "sweeteners".

....and even if you believe that unions should be paid for the "extra" time that it took to negotiate a deal.....how much is "extra"? Let's take an inflated salary of $100K. For a normal person working a 40 hour week with some vacation thrown in - that amounts to about $50 an hour. $2.5 million gives you 50,000 hours of work.....and again, how much is "extra"? Two hours a day? But here's the kicker - through most of the negotiating period, there was a stalemate - few people did anything.

And where does the money go? Well if none is siphoned into crooked pockets, it goes right back into the Union Fund for the next round of blackmail.

Insanity.

[Boges]

Well this is getting out of hand.

http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2015/10/26/province-gave-school-boards-46-million-to-bargain.html

The province has doled out more than $7.1 million to teachers’ unions and Ontario school boards this fall to help cover the costs of bargaining — with more expected to be paid out when a deal is reached with support staff.

In a memo to school boards, sent in July and obtained by the Star, the education ministry states they will receive a total of $4.6 million, on top of the controversial $2.5 million paid to the high school, Catholic and French-board teacher unions.

"School boards are funded by the province to deliver education across all four publicly funded systems and to manage one of the best systems in the world,” said Education Minister Liz Sandals’ spokesperson, Alessandra Fusco. “Part of managing that system is the new provincial responsibility for labour relations under the School Board Collective Bargaining Act and the province is providing school boards funding to support that critical role.”

At Queen’s Park on Monday, the Liberal government continued to face heavy criticism over the millions paid to education unions, no receipts required.

This is what happens when you depend on public service unions to get elected. The teachers Union pretty much has this government by the short and curly's. It's actually incredibly pathetic.

[Scotty]

This is what happens when you depend on public service unions to get elected. The teachers Union pretty much has this government by the short and curly's. It's actually incredibly pathetic.

You mean they have a corrupt relationship where both scratch each others' back at our expense. Yes, it's the same with the rest of the public sector unions, as well, particularly the one representing the OPP. This kind of thing ought to be illegal, but of course, both sides will claim that the money has no influence on their decisions.

[overthere]

In a memo to school boards, sent in July and obtained by the Star, the education ministry states they will receive a total of $4.6 million, on top of the controversial $2.5 million paid to the high school, Catholic and French-board teacher unions.

Both payments are pretty bizarre. The province should simply be telling the school boards that the provinces payments to the boards will be based only on cost of living. and that they must spend the vast majority of their budget directly in the schools, not is school board offices. Then let them negotiate their deals.

There is no rason to fund the unions, they have complete control; over their own revenue via dues to their members.

Seriously, WTF is wrong with the ON govt?

[scribblet]

Well this is getting out of hand.

http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2015/10/26/province-gave-school-boards-46-million-to-bargain.html

This is what happens when you depend on public service unions to get elected. The teachers Union pretty much has this government by the short and curly's. It's actually incredibly pathetic.

When the Star isn't happy with it then we know something is wrong.

[Ash74]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ontario-premier-says-teachers-unions-must-show-receipts-for-2-5-million-negotiation-payout

I am not insulting Wynne. I just really believe this woman has no clue what she is doing. I have no doubt that this government is so far out of its league that it is going far beyond incompetence.

As time goes on and The Ontario Liberals will no longer have Harper to blame it is going to just get worse and worse. Really hope JT either loans Wynne some people with brains or he cuts off her allowance because it will just be flushed down the toilet.

[Ash74]

Once again Deb Matthews didn't know something

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-did-not-know-of-teachers-unions-65-million-reserve-says-deputy-premier/article27149737/

If you remember she also didn't know about the gas plants costing so much

Or that Ornge spending practices while Health Minister.

This woman has managed to fail upwards for since 2003.

Of course with Wynne safely hiding in China now the daily screw ups have the reporters going to her.

[Keepitsimple]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ontario-premier-says-teachers-unions-must-show-receipts-for-2-5-million-negotiation-payout

Really hope JT either loans Wynne some people with brains or he cuts off her allowance because it will just be flushed down the toilet.

That's the even scarier part - it was Wynne who loaned people to JT.....Gerald Butts being the Mastermind.

[Ash74]

That's the even scarier part - it was Wynne who loaned people to JT.....Gerald Butts being the Mastermind.

So basically we are stuck with the people that JT didn't want.

But who will erase all the emails or hide the payouts?

[Keepitsimple]

So basically we are stuck with the people that JT didn't want.

But who will erase all the emails or hide the payouts?

We all have to get it through our thick heads that when certain people do things wrong, when they embody incompetence, when they harbour corruption - it's OK....because they mean well....they care about people - they really do care. For heaven's sake, everyone makes a mistake now and then - but be "progressive" about it.

[Bob Macadoo]

I am not insulting Wynne. I just really believe this woman has no clue what she is doing. I have no doubt that this government is so far out of its league that it is going far beyond incompetence.

I agree with this statement but not for your reason.

The reason the gov't paid this money out was not a "buy-off". They were going to get sued for it by the unions due to in their view "unfair" labour negotiation process (eg. unneeded gov't delays, dual process administrative hoops, etc.) The liberals thought if they paid it out "back door" the media wouldn't notice......mistake # n-1of n.

[Ash74]

I agree with this statement but not for your reason.

The reason the gov't paid this money out was not a "buy-off". They were going to get sued for it by the unions due to in their view "unfair" labour negotiation process (eg. unneeded gov't delays, dual process administrative hoops, etc.) The liberals thought if they paid it out "back door" the media wouldn't notice......mistake # n-1of n.

What you are saying makes sense but from a political point of view it would have made more sense to get sued.

Where did you read that? (not calling you out just curious)

Cutting a check for a couple million for expenses and not have to show any true costs involved while running the risk of getting caught put's on a bad show. The Liberals could have allowed a law suit and let the law suit have gone public so the average joe would blame the teachers unions.

Also if this was a deal to avoid a law suit than why did the EFTO not seek any payments?

[Bob Macadoo]

What you are saying makes sense but from a political point of view it would have made more sense to get sued.

Where did you read that? (not calling you out just curious)

Cutting a check for a couple million for expenses and not have to show any true costs involved while running the risk of getting caught put's on a bad show. The Liberals could have allowed a law suit and let the law suit have gone public so the average joe would blame the teachers unions.

Also if this was a deal to avoid a law suit than why did the EFTO not seek any payments?

I can't find it explicitly....hinted at alot though....my source is a friend secondary teacher. It was bone headed not to attach traceability to it but when you are sweeping the shitpile under the rug you don't spend much time counting the turds.

The problem with letting the lawsuit go is it would sour any future negotiations as everyone would see how they bungled the legislation. I'm guessing they thought it better to look like they were charitable to the union than a sneaky, duplicetous union busting legislator.

[Ash74]

I can't find it explicitly....hinted at alot though....my source is a friend secondary teacher. It was bone headed not to attach traceability to it but when you are sweeping the shitpile under the rug you don't spend much time counting the turds.

The problem with letting the lawsuit go is it would sour any future negotiations as everyone would see how they bungled the legislation. I'm guessing they thought it better to look like they were charitable to the union than a sneaky, duplicetous union busting legislator.

How are negotiations not already soured?

The liberals went public that near the end the union and government were down to sick time and benefits.

Making the teachers seem petty and left no doubt that it was all about money. The phrase "It is all about the children" no longer played.

I do understand your gut instinct is to defend the Ontario Liberals and this time it is very hard to do but there is no justification for this bribe to keep the peace for the next election.

[Bob Macadoo]

How are negotiations not already soured?

The liberals went public that near the end the union and government were down to sick time and benefits.

Making the teachers seem petty and left no doubt that it was all about money. The phrase "It is all about the children" no longer played.

I do understand your gut instinct is to defend the Ontario Liberals and this time it is very hard to do but there is no justification for this bribe to keep the peace for the next election.

My gut instinct? Nope. I just question this gov't for the realistic screw-ups they habitually perform, not the extrapolated chicken little scenarios that people on both sides of this forum tend towards.

[Ash74]

My gut instinct? Nope. I just question this gov't for the realistic screw-ups they habitually perform, not the extrapolated chicken little scenarios that people on both sides of this forum tend towards.

You and I have been down this road before with Bob Chiarelli and his horror show that is the Ministry of Energy.

So this is just yet another Ontario Liberal Government daily (and it is becoming daily) screw up

[poochy]

We all have to get it through our thick heads that when certain people do things wrong, when they embody incompetence, when they harbour corruption - it's OK....because they mean well....they care about people - they really do care. For heaven's sake, everyone makes a mistake now and then - but be "progressive" about it.

That's right, and you aren't allowed to call them out for being the gutter trash that they are lest you get labelled as not nice. Which since it seems the voting public is mostly composed of intellectual children is something you just can't do.

[Smoke]

There is no doubt in my mind that the provincial Liberals are the most corrupt and incompetent provincial party in my lifetime (I'm 60), and yes, we should be holding them to account, but my question is....

When are we going to start holding the public service unions to account as well? It takes two to tangle and they are the ones accepting these backdoor payouts, money for the Lib campaign machine, money for 3rd party ads etc, etc, etc. IMHO they are just as corrupt as the Wynne/McGuinty Liberals. Yet people are always falling all over themselves praising teachers, nurses, police, firemen, etc.

Smoke

Edited November 12, 2015 by Smoke

[Scotty]

There is no doubt in my mind that the provincial Liberals are the most corrupt and incompetent provincial party in my lifetime (I'm 60), and yes, we should be holding them to account, but my question is....

When are we going to start holding the public service unions to account as well? It takes two to tangle and they are the ones accepting these backdoor payouts, money for the Lib campaign machine, money for 3rd party ads etc, etc, etc. IMHO they are just as corrupt as the Wynne/McGuinty Liberals. Yet people are always falling all over themselves praising teachers, nurses, police, firemen, etc.

What's to praise? Being a public servant, especially in Ontario, is a carefree life with little work, high pay, no discipline, and guaranteed annual raises, along with the best benefits in the country when you retire in your fifties. Most public servants need at least a thirty percent cut in salary, and a big cut in benefits. That's especially true for low-skilled positions like teachers police and firefighters.

And don't kid yourself about the value of the degrees the teachers now get. I bet if you split the teaching staff in a typical school in half, and have one half taught by high school graduates and the other half taught by people with graduate degrees and a couple of years of teachers college you'd find the students pretty much learned at the same rate, ie, that all that extra education for teachers results in virtually no improvement in student scores. You can make the garbagemen get degrees too, if you want, but it won't get your garbage picked up any better. The degrees are just a way for teachers to justify their overly generous salaries and benefits.

You take a bunch of teachers with two degrees plus teachers college, and put them into a school with newly graduated high school students

[Big Guy]

There is no doubt in my mind that the provincial Liberals are the most corrupt and incompetent provincial party in my lifetime (I'm 60), and yes, we should be holding them to account, but my question is....

When are we going to start holding the public service unions to account as well? It takes two to tangle and they are the ones accepting these backdoor payouts, money for the Lib campaign machine, money for 3rd party ads etc, etc, etc. IMHO they are just as corrupt as the Wynne/McGuinty Liberals. Yet people are always falling all over themselves praising teachers, nurses, police, firemen, etc.

We were a close family, but 2 of my siblings and I have not spoken with the 3 other siblings (who are all public service union members) since Wynne received her majority courtesy of the public service unions, and it has torn apart our family, divided along the public vs. private workers. It's sad, but at some point one has to take a stand for what they truly believe.

Smoke

If what you state is true then I suggest you folks get some counseling. I doubt that the teachers negotiations is the cause of your problems but only one of the triggers. In time, you will realize that there is nothing more important than family and certainly other ways to take a stand on political positions. It may not be too late.

[Smoke]

Edited November 12, 2015 by Smoke