bush_cheney2004 Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 ....And instead of Americans paying billions to maintain a presence in the ME, they are now paying Iran billions to not develop nukes, since that strategy was so successful with NK. Not instead...Americans will still be paying many billions in military and economic foreign aid to nations in the ME. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
sharkman Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) It's being reported today that Russia is targeting US backed rebels in Syria to support Assad. Also Cuban and Iranian troops are on the ground in Syria. Recently Obama said in a news conference that he would not let the Syrian conflict turn into a proxy war between the US and Russia. So he's giving Putin a green light to light it up without any possible consequences on the table. It's jaw dropping. Edited October 14, 2015 by sharkman Quote
msj Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 The problem is any intervention you dreamed up would just make things worse... again. And the question is... is it really in the US's best interests to borrow money from China to fight unending wars in the middle east. We are talking about trillions of dollars here. And US interests in the region have changed now. Its much much less dependant on oil from the region. Exactly, the US interests have changed and policy should follow suit. No thanks to GW Bush's wasteful wars - but thanks to the shale revolution. Lets see the ME, and Russia, adapt to this new world order - which I don't think is going to turn out so well for them since they want to use a hammer for every little problem they have. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
dre Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 No thanks to GW Bush's wasteful wars - but thanks to the shale revolution. Yup that and other domestic production, plus increased production in countries like Canada. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 It's being reported today that Russia is targeting US backed rebels in Syria to support Assad. Also Cuban and Iranian troops are on the ground in Syria. Recently Obama said in a news conference that he would not let the Syrian conflict turn into a proxy war between the US and Russia. So he's giving Putin a green light to light it up without any possible consequences on the table. It's jaw dropping. Kinda sorta....the U.S. has already seen this movie with Cubans in Angola decades ago. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
dre Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 It's being reported today that Russia is targeting US backed rebels in Syria to support Assad. Also Cuban and Iranian troops are on the ground in Syria. Recently Obama said in a news conference that he would not let the Syrian conflict turn into a proxy war between the US and Russia. So he's giving Putin a green light to light it up without any possible consequences on the table. It's jaw dropping. No its really not, and the US should not be backing those rebels in the first place. Anything we do to compromise Assad helps ISIL. It was a policy mistake for the US to have a goal of removing both of those organisations at the same time. Its probably a policy mistake to back the removal of the Assad regime AT ALL. The guy is a dick, but if he falls he will probably get replaced by people that are worse. And the entire reason we have ISIL to contend with is because we toppled Saddam and put an Iranian backed shia government in charge. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
eyeball Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 Uh, they did put the dog down. That's why Germany and japan have done so well. No the dog did not go down, The war for democracy and an end to tyranny stopped in Berlin. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted October 14, 2015 Report Posted October 14, 2015 It's being reported today that Russia is targeting US backed rebels in Syria to support Assad. Also Cuban and Iranian troops are on the ground in Syria. Recently Obama said in a news conference that he would not let the Syrian conflict turn into a proxy war between the US and Russia. So he's giving Putin a green light to light it up without any possible consequences on the table. It's jaw dropping.So go after Russia.Going after Russia's bastard is like going after a women who wears a niqab. It completely misses the point. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
sharkman Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Posted October 15, 2015 No, that's not in the realm of reality, and who is this bastard of Russia? All I'm saying here is Obama has screwed up. What's to be done about it can only be done after he leaves office. Quote
GostHacked Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Carter left a huge mess to clean up, it wasn't exactly easy. Bush Sr left a mess. Clinton left a mess. Bush Jr left a mess. Obama will be leaving a mess. This is the track record people, and yet many will be cheering whoever is POTUS next without understanding it will just get worse. I predicted this under Obama and I was right. Quote
GostHacked Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 No, that's not in the realm of reality, and who is this bastard of Russia? All I'm saying here is Obama has screwed up. What's to be done about it can only be done after he leaves office. Nothing will be done, you are only going to see more of the same. Quote
sharkman Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) ---SNIP--- This is the track record people, and yet many will be cheering whoever is POTUS next without understanding it will just get worse. I predicted this under Obama and I was right. Well, Obama is doing something different. He is abandoning the Middle East, for all intents and purposes. This is leaving a power vacuum which Russia is filling. It's a game changer. Edited October 15, 2015 by Charles Anthony [---SNIP---] Quote
dre Posted October 15, 2015 Report Posted October 15, 2015 Well, Obama is doing something different. He is abandoning the Middle East, for all intents and purposes. This is leaving a power vacuum which Russia is filling. It's a game changer. That WOULD be a GREAT game changer for the American taxpayer... But it wont happen. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
GostHacked Posted October 16, 2015 Report Posted October 16, 2015 Well, Obama is doing something different. He is abandoning the Middle East, for all intents and purposes. This is leaving a power vacuum which Russia is filling. It's a game changer. The power vacuum was created under Bush Jr, but has been a 20 year process. Obama did not leave anything, he was never there to begin with. Quote
sharkman Posted October 16, 2015 Author Report Posted October 16, 2015 He pulled the soldiers out of Iraq, which sure later helped Isis. He threatened a response in Syria and then pulled back. I'm pretty sure he sent in a fleet and then pulled them back as well. He's been distancing himself from Israel's side since 2009. That all adds up to Obama leaving. Bush Jr did not create a power vacuum. Quote
dre Posted October 16, 2015 Report Posted October 16, 2015 He pulled the soldiers out of Iraq, which sure later helped Isis. He threatened a response in Syria and then pulled back. I'm pretty sure he sent in a fleet and then pulled them back as well. He's been distancing himself from Israel's side since 2009. That all adds up to Obama leaving. Bush Jr did not create a power vacuum. Soldiers were pulled out Iraq on the schedule negotiated with the Iraqi government by Mr Bush. The Iraqi government refused to extend it. What helped ISIL was invading Iraq in the first place, putting an Iranian proxy in charge, and disenfranchising millions of sunnis. Bush Jr did not create a power vacuum. Yeah thats exactly what he did. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Big Guy Posted October 16, 2015 Report Posted October 16, 2015 He pulled the soldiers out of Iraq, which sure later helped Isis. He threatened a response in Syria and then pulled back. I'm pretty sure he sent in a fleet and then pulled them back as well. He's been distancing himself from Israel's side since 2009. That all adds up to Obama leaving. Bush Jr did not create a power vacuum. Did you know that the Iraq government has switched sides and is now in a coalition with Russia, Syria and Iran and is using American weapons against ...? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 16, 2015 Report Posted October 16, 2015 Did you know that the Iraq government has switched sides and is now in a coalition with Russia, Syria and Iran and is using American weapons against ...? I think that is OK...Iran is still trying to keep their American made F-14 Tomcats from the 1970's airworthy. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted October 16, 2015 Report Posted October 16, 2015 He pulled the soldiers out of Iraq, which sure later helped Isis. He threatened a response in Syria and then pulled back. I'm pretty sure he sent in a fleet and then pulled them back as well. He's been distancing himself from Israel's side since 2009. That all adds up to Obama leaving. Bush Jr did not create a power vacuum. The power vacuum was indeed created under Bush. Hussein was taken out, army and police disbanded, which led to violence between the sects previously kept in check (brutally might I add). But I would believe it is harder under ISIS than it was under Hussein. Check your recent history if you care to understand anything. Quote
sharkman Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Posted October 17, 2015 I guess you don't think that having the American military hunting down and shooting criminals was any kind of a power? It's who the bad guys were spending all their energy on. When they left Isis started to grow and get stupid ideas about a caliphate. But it's all debatable and I'm not going to try to debate anybody on that, believe whatever suits you. I'm simply saying here that Obama's term has been a disaster for the ME. And now we see that he's reversed himself on pulling out of Afghanistan. I'm not arguing the merits of staying or going. I'm simply saying he's reversed himself there, while not having the smarts to see that Iraq and Syria are going down the toilet. It makes me wonder what makes him tick. Quote
dre Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 I guess you don't think that having the American military hunting down and shooting criminals was any kind of a power? It's who the bad guys were spending all their energy on. When they left Isis started to grow and get stupid ideas about a caliphate. But it's all debatable and I'm not going to try to debate anybody on that, believe whatever suits you. I'm simply saying here that Obama's term has been a disaster for the ME. And now we see that he's reversed himself on pulling out of Afghanistan. I'm not arguing the merits of staying or going. I'm simply saying he's reversed himself there, while not having the smarts to see that Iraq and Syria are going down the toilet. It makes me wonder what makes him tick. They werent hunting and killing them, they were PAYING them. 80 thousand sunni "terrorists" were getting paychecks from Uncle Sam, because attempts to defeat the insurgency militarily were a dismal failure. And the power vacuum was created by taking a very well entrenched baathist regime and replacing it with an Iranian proxy that the Sunni population does not recognize. What you see today is a result of that policy. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
sharkman Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) Again, I'm not here to debate the last 20 years. I'm simply saying that Obama's ME efforts have been a disaster. Whether you agree with me or not is fine. Edited October 17, 2015 by sharkman Quote
eyeball Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 I'm simply saying that Obama's ME efforts have been a disaster. Maybe on a scale starting down from apocalyptic on through catastrophic to disaster. Where Obama would be near the bottom third that represents disaster and Bush is close to the line between catastrophic and apocalyptic. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
sharkman Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Posted October 17, 2015 The results of Obama's decisions are unfolding before us. I don't know, you may like Russia or Iran, but they have ambitions that remain cloaked at this point, and I don't trust them. Quote
eyeball Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 Their ambitions have pretty much zip all to do with Obama's decisions. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
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