Harper the Disgrace

[eyeball]

Harper's efforts to steal elections are much more despicable than the sponsorship scandal, IMO. It's less odious to steal money than it is to steal democracy.

I'd say its way way by far and away less odious. The theft of power facilitates the theft of wealth like nothing else.

Nations that do it to other nations are committing what should be regarded as one of the most serious crimes against humanity that can be committed. The harm it can do is just so awful and enduring that using nuclear waste as a weapon against civilians would be about the only thing I can imagine that might come close to being on par with it.

Edited October 19, 2015 by eyeball

[G Huxley]

What do you mean?

A poster on Ekos put it pretty well so I'll quote:

"Trudeau is going to be the next Prime Minister (NDP backing the Libs). I think Mulcair is finished as well. NDP ran a lousy campaign (and I really believe that it started with their refusal to participate in the all-networks debate, because Harper wasn’t going to go……………Mulcair could have scored some big points with the Canadian voter, debating Trudeau, May, Duceppe, and an empty blue podium, in front of millions of voters, watching on television and online. The NDP’s reasoning that they were the only ones able to defeat Harper,…. so they were going where he was going (into Conservative-chosen debates), now looks foolish. All political parties need to rejuvenate themselves, after an election cycle or two……..I think the Conservatives and the NDP will be doing just that, after tomorrow."

http://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2015/10/penultimate-check-up-on-election-42/

[ReeferMadness]

A poster on Ekos put it pretty well so I'll quote:

"Trudeau is going to be the next Prime Minister (NDP backing the Libs). I think Mulcair is finished as well. NDP ran a lousy campaign (and I really believe that it started with their refusal to participate in the all-networks debate, because Harper wasn’t going to go……………Mulcair could have scored some big points with the Canadian voter, debating Trudeau, May, Duceppe, and an empty blue podium, in front of millions of voters, watching on television and online. The NDP’s reasoning that they were the only ones able to defeat Harper,…. so they were going where he was going (into Conservative-chosen debates), now looks foolish. All political parties need to rejuvenate themselves, after an election cycle or two……..I think the Conservatives and the NDP will be doing just that, after tomorrow."

http://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2015/10/penultimate-check-up-on-election-42/

That's a fair point - I'd forgotten about Mulcair's refusal to participate in debates. I agree it now looks like a really bad decision. They could have made Harper look bad if he'd sat out. His candidates looked like they were running away from candidate debates across the country.

[Vancouver King]

The bigger question is at one point during the campaign did the public begin to view the Liberals as the vehicle for change - despite the NDP's front running into September. The answer likely involves the niqab.

[G Huxley]

If it does that's pretty sad.

[ReeferMadness]

The bigger question is at one point during the campaign did the public begin to view the Liberals as the vehicle for change - despite the NDP's front running into September. The answer likely involves the niqab.

How can it be the niqab? Mulcair and Trudeau said almost exactly the same thing.

[ToadBrother]

How can it be the niqab? Mulcair and Trudeau said almost exactly the same thing.

Yes, but Mulcair said it first, Trudeau wisely let the grenade go off in Mulcair's lap, and then said his piece. Sometimes it isn't what you say, it's when you say it.

[ReeferMadness]

Yes, but Mulcair said it first, Trudeau wisely let the grenade go off in Mulcair's lap, and then said his piece. Sometimes it isn't what you say, it's when you say it.

I dunno - Trudeau went after Harper pretty hard - remember the "That's disgusting!!"

[Smallc]

Yes, but Mulcair said it first, Trudeau wisely let the grenade go off in Mulcair's lap, and then said his piece. Sometimes it isn't what you say, it's when you say it.

And how. Trudeau knows how to speak to people so they like what he says, even if it's not what they want to hear...Mulcair and Harper...lets just say that they don't have that problem.

[ReeferMadness]

And how. Trudeau knows how to speak to people so they like what he says, even if it's not what they want to hear...Mulcair and Harper...lets just say that they don't have that problem.

That's leadership.

[ToadBrother]

And how. Trudeau knows how to speak to people so they like what he says, even if it's not what they want to hear...Mulcair and Harper...lets just say that they don't have that problem.

Exactly. Trudeau's deft stickwork over the niqab issue is one of the best demonstrations I've seen of how badly the Tories and NDP misjudged the man's abilities. Not only did he communicate his displeasure with the Tories' Mulsim-bating, he allowed the NDP to take the body blow, and then, as the cherry on top, had a genuinely "Prime Ministerial" moment, lecturing Harper to stop inflaming public sentiment with the issue. Each person will have to decide whether it was from the heart or a well-timed ploy, but to my mind it worked, it allowed the Liberals to rise above the debate, making themselves invulnerable while condemning the disreputable tactics the Tories were using. A real masterstroke.

[Smallc]

Each person will have to decide whether it was from the heart or a well-timed ploy, but to my mind it worked, it allowed the Liberals to rise above the debate, making themselves invulnerable while condemning the disreputable tactics the Tories were using. A real masterstroke.

Harper almost did the same thing in the first debate, in regards to Quebec separatism. I was in his corner right then and there. It was Trudeau that made the mistake then. I think he decided not to make the same mistake twice.

[Vancouver King]

How can it be the niqab? Mulcair and Trudeau said almost exactly the same thing.

The NDP's constituency in Quebec is ethnic French Canadians whereas Liberal support was confined to English enclaves in Montreal This distinction is important since each group received the parties support for the niqab with varying intensity. NDP supporters reacted with outrage - overnight the NDP's support dropped from 51% in the region to the low 40's

In contrast, Liberal constituencies were far less anti-niqab and, accordingly,the Liberal support remained relatively stable. The initial benefactors of the NDP slide were the Bloc and Conservatives and only after the bottom truly fell out of NDP support two weeks later did Trudeau's party begin to share in disaffected and defecting NDP voters. Polling by Leger paints a story of a regions federal politics turned upside down.

This NDP bleeding to it's rivals in Quebec continues into election night - all resulting from a principled stand on the niqab by Thomas Mulcair.

[Smallc]

The NDP's constituency in Quebec is ethnic French Canadians whereas Liberal support was confined to English enclaves in Montreal

That explains why they're now in the lead with somewhere between 30 and 35% support....

[BC_chick]

In contrast, Liberal constituencies were far less anti-niqab and, accordingly,the Liberal support remained relatively stable. The initial benefactors of the NDP slide were the Bloc and Conservatives and only after the bottom truly fell out of NDP support two weeks later did Trudeau's party begin to share in disaffected and defecting NDP voters. Polling by Leger paints a story of a regions federal politics turned upside down.

This NDP bleeding to it's rivals in Quebec continues into election night - all resulting from a principled stand on the niqab by Thomas Mulcair.

That is the best commentary I've seen on the issue. Thank you.