Wilber Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 My understanding is that the drug companies rationalize this against high costs of research and FDA compliance, but I'm not familiar with the landscape in that business. Edited to add: I don't think I used a good example above. In a market that is truly open, with more competition and less regulation, you'll have better price competition. I think real "free" markets are largely a myth. There is always someone dicking with them. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
PIK Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Did I hear it was done and if so, what happened?? Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Topaz Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Harper is suppose to meet with reporters this morning but I've got a interview with the ministers who signed the agreement and u decided the out come. Min, Fast just said something about the Government of Canada after O ct. 19th should not turn it down. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/72688061/Trade-ministers-reach-agreement-on-TPPA-in-last-minute-negotiations Quote
blueblood Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/trans-pacific-partnership-agreement-key-points-that-impact-canada-1.2595268 Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Giving an extra 3.25 percent in the dairy world is a small price to pay along with an almost 20 percent increase in foreign car parts. Japan acing their beef tariffs by 30% over 9 years is good too along with tariffs being completely removed ir reduced for a wide range of products. The dairy industry should be happy that fast went to bat for them and its only 3.25 percent Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
angrypenguin Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Turned out better than I thought for the farmers. Plus the government is offering 100% income payments for 15 years. My job doesn't offer that. Just a layoff. Edited October 5, 2015 by angrypenguin Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Michael Hardner Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Turned out better than I thought for the farmers. Plus the government is offering 100% income payments for five years. Penguin - this came up before and I asked for links several times. Do you have one this time ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
blueblood Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Penguin - this came up before and I asked for links several times. Do you have one this time ?Use mine Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 I can see big problems on access to markets and enforcement of provisions in other countries. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Quebec has a habit of shifting huge number of votes over tiny emotional issues, witness what happened to the Tories over those arts grants a couple of elections ago. Or the niqab debate we have just had. This is such a big deal, literally speaking, I find it extraordinary that you are able to pass judgement on it so quickly. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 I can see big problems on access to markets and enforcement of provisions in other countries. Why? Most of the countries involved have fairly effective court systems, and since a part of any trade deal is targeted retaliation, why is it you think it can't be enforced? Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Penguin - this came up before and I asked for links several times. Do you have one this time ? Sorry for the wait. Power outage this AM. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/trans-pacific-partnership-deal-reached-official To compensate Canadian dairy and poultry farmers for potential financial losses from the deal, the government is promising to invest $4.3 billion over the next 15 years in new income and quota guarantees, and other programs to keep dairy and poultry farmers “financially whole.” The additional duty-free access to Canada’s dairy and poultry market for TPP partners will be granted through quotas phased in over five years, and amounts to 3.25 per cent of Canada’s current dairy production (with the majority of the additional milk and butter being directed to value-added processing), 2.3 per cent for eggs, 2.1 per cent for chicken, two per cent for turkey and 1.5 per cent for broiler hatching eggs. A typical dairy farmer will receive total federal government compensation of approximately $165,600 over the next 15 years, with an average chicken farmer receiving $84,100 and turkey farmer receiving $88,000. A typical egg farm could expect $71,500 and a hatching egg farm would receive approximately $191,700. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
Michael Hardner Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Thanks a lot Penguin. This seems like a pretty fair phase-out to me. Certainly the Liberal government didn't offer me anything like this when they offshored my line of work in the 1990s. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
waldo Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 'devil in the details'... no full TPP public text to be released... for "weeks"! Now, isn't that special? Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 'devil in the details'... no full TPP public text to be released... for "weeks"! Now, isn't that special? That's because such a text doesn't even likely exist at the moment. You have a draft agreement with the details needing to be fleshed out, and then that agreement sent to the negotiating teams to make sure it is correct. The treaty was five years in the making, and you think a full text of the agreement is just going to appear today? Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Why? Most of the countries involved have fairly effective court systems, and since a part of any trade deal is targeted retaliation, why is it you think it can't be enforced? I can see problems in Japan and Korea for starters. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 I can see problems in Japan and Korea for starters. And what issues are there with either nations' court systems? Quote
waldo Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 That's because such a text doesn't even likely exist at the moment. You have a draft agreement with the details needing to be fleshed out, and then that agreement sent to the negotiating teams to make sure it is correct. The treaty was five years in the making, and you think a full text of the agreement is just going to appear today? distinctions were made to highlight this wasn't an 'agreement in principle'... that this was the final deal. And no, not today... but to presume to get full details "weeks from now", well beyond the election date, presumes some degree of hype sensitivity in just how much Harper Conservatives presume to leverage it within the final lead-up to election day. That will happen, right? even at the highest level, where is the official Harper Conservative government response. I earlier offered up a somewhat high-level, but lengthy and detailed, objectives reference put forward by the U.S. government (simply as a point in how poorly Harper Conservatives were communicating to Canadians). I guess I'll need to do the same again: Office of the United States Trade Representative - Summary of the TPP agreement Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) And what issues are there with either nations' court systems? I would not know enough about the courts to comment but the Japanese are very protective about their farmers. I can see long delays appearing in the judicial process. This is a country of secret executions where WWII has not been honestly examined yet. Edited October 5, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland Quote
angrypenguin Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) That's because such a text doesn't even likely exist at the moment. You have a draft agreement with the details needing to be fleshed out, and then that agreement sent to the negotiating teams to make sure it is correct. The treaty was five years in the making, and you think a full text of the agreement is just going to appear today? Precisely. The last couple of posts have truly disappointed me. First, the left was saying "damn you Harper for having secret meetings". For real?? Yeah let's give away our negotiating power by...oh wait, telling everyone stuff that is entirely confidential (all 12 nations agreed to this). Then Trudeau comes out and curses Harper for this. WHAT?? The Conservatives have done 99% of the free trade deals for Canada and Trudeau comes out today and says he supports it, pending a review?? Then we have people on here expecting the entire draft agreement released on the day of agreement (assuming they negotiated well into the wee hours). WOW. I'm very disappointed in humanity today. Edited October 5, 2015 by angrypenguin Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
PIK Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Free trade brought in with America hurt a lot of mom and pop businesses, I don't remember anyone getting any compensation? I am sure the dairy farmers and I know lots can compete and if not why cant they when others do. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
angrypenguin Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Free trade brought in with America hurt a lot of mom and pop businesses, I don't remember anyone getting any compensation? I am sure the dairy farmers and I know lots can compete and if not why cant they when others do. It forces mom and pop shops to compete at a global level. It's good for consumers, and is a part of life. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
PIK Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 I agree, but they received nothing when they closed down their businesses. So why should the farmers. And I have never met a poor dairy farmer. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
ToadBrother Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 I agree, but they received nothing when they closed down their businesses. So why should the farmers. And I have never met a poor dairy farmer. It's not unheard of in agreements that open up a protected sector to see compensation. I believe that many sectors in the EU and its predecessors have received compensation. I see no problem with this at all, and it takes a lot of the wind out of Mulcair's sails. Quote
Wilber Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 And what issues are there with either nations' court systems? I don't see a problem with courts but this agreement has to be passed in the legislatures of every country that has signed it. Rice to the Japanese is much more than a food, it's importance is as much cultural as economic, so I see some push back there. We all know the obstacles the present Congress puts in front of anything originating in the Obama administration. Who knows what domestic opposition other governments face. Does this whole deal fall apart if one government fails to ratify it or do the others just carry on. The benefits of this agreement are not directly reciprocal. For example, country A gives up an advantage to country B in order to get an advantage from country C. What happens if C fails to ratify, does A still give up its advantage to B? I think this agreement still has a long way to go. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
angrypenguin Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 I agree, but they received nothing when they closed down their businesses. So why should the farmers. And I have never met a poor dairy farmer. Because it's election time. I've posted about this already. I am completely against this whole payout thing. If the Conservatives were in a majority for another 4 years and had the mandate, I bet you they wouldn't have done this. Quote My views are my own and not those of my employer.
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