Canada Gives Up Military Independence

[GostHacked]

Sigh. Conspiracy nonsense. Tinfoil hat stuff.

It's not conspiracy when it actually happens. If this was talked about some years ago you'd throw out the tin foil hat crap. Even when the government tells you they are doing it you still say 'tin foil hat'.

Remember the EU took 50 years to get where it was. That is longer than most of us on this forum have been alive. An integrated Europe sure seemed like crazy talk, but it happened. What makes you think it's not going to happen here?

[Argus]

It's not conspiracy when it actually happens. If this was talked about some years ago you'd throw out the tin foil hat crap. Even when the government tells you they are doing it you still say 'tin foil hat'.

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, okay? You think the Republicans are going to want twenty million more Democratic voters who believe wholeheartedly in gun control, abortion on demand and public health care? Seriously!? Forget about it!

Edited October 6, 2015 by Argus

[Army Guy]

Sorry Army Guy - I generally do not respond to parsing. In the past it had led to parsing of parsed responses of parsed opinions of ... and loses any sense of continuity for me.

I still believe that the more we spend on armed forces, the more sophisticated weaponry we purchase then the more we will be expect to add to aggressive American foreign policy. We do not develop our own military capability, we purchase it from others. What country would sell us the latest military technology - technology that could be compromised, sold and used against that country?

What possible aggression directed at Canada would the USA ignore?

The only problems that we may have is with the North and against the USA. It might be Russian aggression but the USA would be protecting their interests and our only when they were the same. The USA will get from the Canadian North what the USA wants from the Canadian North.

With our geopolitical position, I cannot see Canada ever being able to create a completely independent foreign policy but we can allow the USA to spend their own blood and bounty on their military and Canada reserve their monies for quality of Canadian lives.

If history has taught us anything at all, it is not being prepared for conflict costs our nation, the lives of it's soldiers, and citizens. WWI and WWII were perfect examples of this.... WWI Canada had started the war with only 3110 officers and men.....and they had been given Sam Hughes, who actually thought he was a soldier, he gave canada the ross rifle, MacAdam shield shovel, Boots and webbing designed for the boer war, and the colt MG, not to mention the total screw up of intial training in Valcartier and so on, where soldiers were given a few small amount of training then sent to the killing fields of europe, where they either learned their craft or were buried in some field in France.....Canada would go on to accomplish many great feats during the war, forced to become a professional force.....but at what cost Canadian lives....WWII Canada military force stood at 4169 officers and men.....armed with WWI left overs.....can anyone see a trend here....i could go on and talk about Korea, etc but you get the point.....

I don't think anyone in Canada is calling for a huge military, that includes those that are pro military....it is not who we are as a nation.....what we have been screaming for is a force that is properly equipped and trained with the latest wpns....this would allow or stop the needless slaughter of troops with little training or experience during the outset of the conflict, as the previous lessons we forget about, and you know you still see today, how can we forget wrong camouflage uniforms, iltis jeeps, no desert climate training, the list goes on .....and they all have one thing in common....soldiers had to die to force change.......i guess perhaps you are right, better to pay out the cost to bury Canadians than to spend funding on equipment....it's cheaper, a soldiers life is worth one years wages, a coffin, a flag, a small honor guard, some music ......and some memorial with names and numbers on it when it is over....

And while this may be true, to alot of canadians, "that thinking it is to expensive" to have a ready, fit , military is a waste of money...... what i see in each and every soldier, Airmen, Sailor is a hero , people that believe that this nation is worth the cost, regardless of what others may think, that being a canadian is more than watching hockey and collecting pogey......All they have ever asked in return is for the Canadian citizen to have their backs,...that would include ensuring they are properly equipped, properly trained, and ensuring the Government does not send on fruitless missions, so they might have a chance to return to their families and loved ones......Not a whole lot to ask for, when they are willing to risk their lives.....

The military industrial complex is a major world player, any nation, group or individual can purchase anything if one has funds....including the latest tech, See F-35, or Leo MBT's.....i remember Russia offering us a less expensive alternative to the C-17.....

What possible threat to our nation would the us ignore, OK i get what your point is, But then again what possible threat to the US could we ignore.

[John]

If Canadians are so opposed to this idea then maybe they should man up and support a military befitting of a country with the second largest land mass and 11th largest economy.

Too many want to just sit back and let the US protect us.

[Big Guy]

We will always be playing second fiddle to the Americans. We will never get the latest technology in military weapons because we do not develop them and no nation would sell the latest technology to another nation.

I understand that your views are coming from someone who embraces and is proud of our military. Good for you, you probably have first hand knowledge and feel that the sacrifices that the soldiers have made in the many wars were worth that sacrifice. I do not. The sacrifice that was made and the pain absorbed was by those who the dead left behind. They are the ones who had to deal with changes in their lives that the sacrifice created.

I have no intention in trying to demean the spirit and sense of duty that cause those in the military to gravitate to the military. They do so in their own free will with their particular agendas and goals.

I believe that I am dealing from reality:

Canada will never have weapons or military technology that is the equal of or better than the USA.

The USA prides itself as a warrior nation and celebrates its history of wars that it has won.

The USA will be involved in any conflict in which Canada is involved.

In any conflict in which the USA and Canada are involved it is the USA which will decide where and how the Canadian contingent will be used.

"Sit back and let the USA protect us"? Certainly they already do.

If you feel better that we pour $billions of Canadian dollars into purchasing American military hardware into which we put Canadians (trained by Americans on that equipment) and then let the Americans decide where to send "Canadian" military, purchased from America with American trained Canadians at the wheel then good for you.

I would prefer my tax dollars to be spent on making Canadian living better for us.

And "man up"? What the hell does that mean? Show how macho we are by sending Canadians into war zones created by the Americans so we can show that we too are ready to die for some silly idea some guy in Washington decided upon?

If Canada had an independent foreign policy, was prepared to spend $trillions on the most recent military technology, develop nuclear capability so we could be considered serious on our own on the world stage, then I would support that program.

If not - then let the Americans spend their tax dollars to protect us because that is the only way for them to protect themselves.

[eyeball]

But then again what possible threat to the US could we ignore.

It's the threat that the US and a few of our other allies pose to the rest of the world that is the problem, something you just don't, can't or refuse to get.

I have stated numerous times that I have no problem outfitting our country with the means to defend our borders, but I'll damned if I'm going to support wasting those resources involving ourselves in conflicts that have nothing to do with us half way around the world.

And again I say, for those Canadians who do insist on following our goddamn allies on their misadventures overseas, raise money by selling war bonds or better yet just go join their armed forces.

BTW, don't forget to tear the Maple Leaf off your backpacks.

Edited October 8, 2015 by eyeball