Should the Police be allowed to investigate Wynne?

[drummindiver]

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/09/24/criminal-charges-laid-in-sudbury-election-probe.html

There is obviously some shady things going on in Sudbury.

You can clearly hear Gerry Lougheed saying "Wynne wants to call you about it, she doesn't want to be told to eff off".

The police are not going to charge her. Or her aide Pat Sorbara. Crazy.

The police have campaigned on her behalf, as have other unions. Clearyl, the police have a stake in what happens to Wynne. Go after Wynne and charge her, you bite the hand that feeds.

Should the police be allowed to investigate the person responsible for their compensation?
I believe second party investigators should have been brought in as they have in other similar circmstances.

The stench from Queen's Park is excetionally unpalatable.

[On Guard for Thee]

The police are allowed to investigate anyone who shows reason to be investigated. That's part of their job.

[drummindiver]

No conflict then, ever?

[Ash74]

The RCMP seem to be doing their job. Perhaps the OPP could take some lessons

[Derek 2.0]

It doesn't look good for Wynne.......blood in the water.

From what I understand, the conversation with Wynne wasn't recorded?

Federally, Butts/Trudeau must be regretting leaning on her......cue the Wynne/Trudeau adds across Ontario.

[drummindiver]

No, the conversation with Wynne was not recorded.

Enough evidence from the other two recordings...you would think.

Clearly, OPP are looking after their golden goose.

[Derek 2.0]

No, the conversation with Wynne was not recorded.

Enough evidence from the other two recordings...you would think.

Clearly, OPP are looking after their golden goose.

If there is a conflict of interest with the OPP as you suggest, and it's discovered that Federal election laws might have also been broken, wouldn't the Queen's cowboys take over the investigation anyways?

[drummindiver]

This isn't a federal matter. The Cowboys should be brought in, however, as the OPP are (in my opinion edit) bias.

"In February, Elections Ontario ruled Ms. Sorbara and Mr. Lougheed broke the provincial Elections Act, which prohibits offering a person any inducement not to run in an election. Elections Ontario, which does not have the power to lay charges itself, referred the matter to the OPP. The investigation into those possible provincial charges is ongoing".

Some of the lowlights include:

"I come to you on behalf of the Premier … to ask you if you would consider stepping aside,”

“The Premier wants to talk to you. We would like to present to you options in terms of appointments, jobs, whatever.”

"Wynne wants to call you, but doesn't want to be told to eff off".

Edited September 25, 2015 by drummindiver

[Derek 2.0]

This isn't a federal matter. The Cowboys should be brought in, however, as the OPP are bias.

I didn't think it was.........then I suppose one would have to have some shred of evidence, of a bias, on the part of the OPP........

[drummindiver]

Sorry. It is my opinion that the OPP are bias. My opinion only.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/10/wynne-opp-too-close-for-comfort

[Derek 2.0]

Sorry. It is my opinion that the OPP are bias. My opinion only.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/10/wynne-opp-too-close-for-comfort

Right, so in your linked opinion piece, it states:

On Monday, we learned the RCMP raided the offices of the Ontario Provincial Police Association in Barrie last week as part of an ongoing criminal investigation, including those of president Jim Christie, vice-president Martin Bain and chief administrative officer Karl Walsh.

So the RCMP investigated the OPP union on a unrelated mater (to this bye-election scandal)..........The OPP has charged Gerry Lougheed on two criminal offences..............the problem is what?

When one starts wrapping oneself in tin-foil, they then cut the knees off any valid point they were trying to discuss.

[drummindiver]

Right, so in your linked opinion piece, it states:

So the RCMP investigated the OPP union on a unrelated mater (to this bye-election scandal)..........The OPP has charged Gerry Lougheed on two criminal offences..............the problem is what?

When one starts wrapping oneself in tin-foil, they then cut the knees off any valid point they were trying to discuss.

Sorry, tin-foil?

How long to even investigate?

How long to charge after investigation?

Not enough people and not enough charges.

How many other scandals no charges when clear criminal activity was documented?-deleted emails for one.

Clear connection between OPP compensation and Wynne premier. OPP union campaigns heavily for Wynne.

The topic of this thread is if the OPP should be allowed to investigate when inexorably linked to Wynne's political success.

I think they should not.

Where is the tin foil in that?

[drummindiver]

Right, so in your linked opinion piece, it states:

So the RCMP investigated the OPP union on a unrelated mater (to this bye-election scandal)..........The OPP has charged Gerry Lougheed on two criminal offences..............the problem is what?

When one starts wrapping oneself i

n tin-foil, they then cut the knees off any valid point they were trying to discuss.

So, you draw the connection between the RCMP raiding the offices of the OPP union, and the OPP laying two charges against Lougheed as proof there is no bias on the part of the OPP?

Sorry, how do you connect the two?

Did you read the entire article?

When Wynne told the legislature she would not require Pat Sorbara, her deputy chief of staff, to step aside while she is under investigation by the OPP, in part because she does not expect Sorbara will be charged, both opposition parties rightly pointed out she crossed the line.

Wynne’s government presides over the OPP. The Ontario Provincial Police Association negotiates with the Wynne government for its salaries, benefits and working conditions.

When Wynne predicted the outcome of the OPP’s investigation, it raised the question of whether her statement might pressure OPP investigators to reach the same conclusion

Wynne should have been particularly sensitive to not being perceived as interfering in any way with the OPP investigation because of the actions of the Ontario Provincial Police Association in last year’s election.

[Derek 2.0]

So, you draw the connection between the RCMP raiding the offices of the OPP union, and the OPP laying two charges against Lougheed as proof there is no bias on the part of the OPP?

Sorry, how do you connect the two?

Did you read the entire article?

Both the RCMP and OPP investigated criminal activity.......to me, that is an indication the system is working.

[Derek 2.0]

The topic of this thread is if the OPP should be allowed to investigate when inexorably linked to Wynne's political success.

I think they should not.

Where is the tin foil in that?

You have no evidence, of any sort, that the OPP won't conduct an unbiased investigation on Mr Lougheed........the reality is quite the opposite to your claim of a OPP/OLP conflict of interest.......what with a Ontario Liberal party staffer being charged by the OPP and all.

If you have any actual evidence to suggest that the OPP won't conduct a proper criminal investigation of Mr Lougheed, by all means present it.......if not, I'll leave you to your conspiracy theory.

[drummindiver]

You have no evidence, of any sort, that the OPP won't conduct an unbiased investigation on Mr Lougheed........the reality is quite the opposite to your claim of a OPP/OLP conflict of interest.......what with a Ontario Liberal party staffer being charged by the OPP and all.

If you have any actual evidence to suggest that the OPP won't conduct a proper criminal investigation of Mr Lougheed, by all means present it.......if not, I'll leave you to your conspiracy theory.

Yes, because clearly Lougheed was the topic of this thread.

edited for sarcasm

Edited September 25, 2015 by drummindiver

[Derek 2.0]

Yes, because clearly Lougheed was the topic of this thread.

edited for sarcasm

I would assume that he was.......what with you mentioning him in your OP and all.

[drummindiver]

Nope. He's mentioned. Not the point.

Anyways, I'll put you down as "undecided". Thanks for playing.

I would assume that he was.......what with you mentioning him in your OP and all.

[Topaz]

In my view, IF ANY party breaks the rules they should be punished and if the liberals did something wrong, they will have their day in court. Now that being said, go back to 2005-6, when some federal Tories did try to bribe Cadman for a vote and on tape it was heard Harper saying something to the effect , "I told them that he wouldn't take the bribe, but u can try". Why wasn't someone charged? The family said it happened, then the wife changes her mind, run for MP and gets in.....????

[drummindiver]

In my view, IF ANY party breaks the rules they should be punished and if the liberals did something wrong, they will have their day in court. Now that being said, go back to 2005-6, when some federal Tories did try to bribe Cadman for a vote and on tape it was heard Harper saying something to the effect , "I told them that he wouldn't take the bribe, but u can try". Why wasn't someone charged? The family said it happened, then the wife changes her mind, run for MP and gets in.....????

I haven't read about that, but if you're right, Harper should be charged as well.

The gist of this thread is you are not above the law. Having the police campaign on your behalf does not set an atmosphere of trust. Again, IMO.

[PIK]

Who gave him permission to do it? And if convicted will he paraded in front of the cameras in leg irons? This stinks.

[eyeball]

From what I understand, the conversation with Wynne wasn't recorded?

You figure it should have been?

[Derek 2.0]

You figure it should have been?

The subject of the alleged case, Andrew Olivier, is quadriplegic, and records conversations instead of taking notes, hence how said conversation with Lougheed was recorded......clearly a recorded conversation with Wynne, in which she breaks election laws etc, would be even more damning.

[ironstone]

The Ontario Liberals have been very generous to the OPP.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/26/municipalities-held-hostage-by-opp-pay-raise

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/mcguinty-defends-85-per-cent-pay-hike-for-opp-in-2014/article1360155/

[eyeball]

The subject of the alleged case, Andrew Olivier, is quadriplegic, and records conversations instead of taking notes, hence how said conversation with Lougheed was recorded......clearly a recorded conversation with Wynne, in which she breaks election laws etc, would be even more damning.

Point being digital records do the trick.

Seems to me an official recording audited in a timely fashion would have nipped this in the bud and saved a lot of public time, money and cynicism. So why don't you guy's ever institute the sorts of changes that would make this kind of transparency and accountability possible, don't want to have to face the music yourselves?

You think you'd have a hard time selling the idea to the Canadian public? That said I bet a fairly solid third of Canadians would be outraged if anyone else proposed it.