End the Harper Government: My views on Canada's democracy

[Evening Star]

Coyne complained just as much about the Liberals and will likely complain about the NDP too. He has his principles and is honest enough to criticize any that fail to live to them parties will live up to them.

So there are real issues, then? He's not just trumping them up as an "political tactic"? The OP did not shy away from criticising the Liberals either (and nor do I ftm).

Edited September 13, 2015 by Evening Star

[On Guard for Thee]

It doesn't matter when it was planned, it matters what it's intended for which is NOT immigration. It's for foreign aid which falls under International Development. Do you honestly have a hard time understanding that?

Apparently you have a hard time understanding the fallacy under which it was concocted. Harper voters are on the lookout for your type.

[Accountability Now]

Apparently you have a hard time understanding the fallacy under which it was concocted. Harper voters are on the lookout for your type.

It was concocted because the people of Syria need foreign aid. The issue of immigration is still in discussion.

I really can't hold your hand on this. Having said that, how is that waterfront property that you were douped into?

[TimG]

So there are real issues, then? He's not just trumping them up as an "political tactic"? The OP did not shy away from criticising the Liberals either (and nor do I ftm).

They are not issues that separate one party from another since they are all more or less the same. People who use over the top rhetoric to attack Conservatives on these issues ARE using it to shut down discussion on policies which actually do separate one party from another. Edited September 13, 2015 by TimG

[On Guard for Thee]

It was concocted because the people of Syria need foreign aid. The issue of immigration is still in discussion.

I really can't hold your hand on this. Having said that, how is that waterfront property that you were douped into?

It was concocted because of the bad PR Harper's reaction and record, personified by Alexander's comments garnered. A quick attempt to patch a sinking boat. I can see how you can't hold anybody's hand on things political. You buy the pablum.

[Accountability Now]

It was concocted because of the bad PR Harper's reaction and record, personified by Alexander's comments garnered. A quick attempt to patch a sinking boat. I can see how you can't hold anybody's hand on things political. You buy the pablum.

The Federal government has a long history of humanitarian aid distributed through the International Development office (not Immigration ? )

Here is a link outlining the many recent projects including Nepal, Burma, Haiti and numerous ones in Syria dating back to March ...yes March!!!!

http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/cidaweb/cpo.nsf/vWebCCEn?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=5303

Canada has been involved in humanitarian aid for a while now but it has only recently heated up to such measures that require more aid....hence more aid was given.

I certainly do need to buy pablum as that seems to be your soup de jour!!! I got your back bud....the pablum a on me!

[On Guard for Thee]

The Federal government has a long history of humanitarian aid distributed through the International Development office (not Immigration )

Here is a link outlining the many recent projects including Nepal, Burma, Haiti and numerous ones in Syria dating back to March ...yes March!!!!

http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/cidaweb/cpo.nsf/vWebCCEn?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=5303

Canada has been involved in humanitarian aid for a while now but it has only recently heated up to such measures that require more aid....hence more aid was given.

I certainly do need to buy pablum as that seems to be your soup de jour!!! I got your back bud....the pablum a on me!

No, the reference to "pablum" has to do with buying blindly what the particular purveyor, (in this case the Harper government) tries to sell you. Apparently they have you hook line and sinker.

[Accountability Now]

No, the reference to "pablum" has to do with buying blindly what the particular purveyor, (in this case the Harper government) tries to sell you. Apparently they have you hook line and sinker.

Let's recap...you stated that it should be the Immigration minister announcing this foreign aid plan and I have clearly shown you that you are wrong.

You have also claimed that Canada only gave money because of recent incidents involving Chris Alexander, however I have provided further information showing that Canada has been giving aid back since March when Syria wasn't a bleeding heart story to you. So again I showed you are wrong.

Now your only hope is to focus on the pablum and talk about Harper? This has nothing to do with Harper or me supporting him. It has EVERYTHING to do with you getting it wrong once again. You've been shown the door, I suggest you take it.

[Evening Star]

They are not issues that separate one party from another since they are all more or less the same. People who use over the top rhetoric to attack Conservatives on these issues ARE using it to shut down discussion on policies which actually do separate one party from another.

I'm not sure I see the distinction but: the voters did toss out the federal Liberals after it became too much, right? And the BC NDP as well? So if they're all the same in the end, is it not reasonable that some voters might not want to vote for the Tories on these grounds? And I'm not sure that we can assume that much about what the current federal LPC and NDP might be like based on what a different Liberal Party with a different leader and caucus did 20 years ago or what provincial NDP governments might have done at various times.

[Queenmandy85]

Our politicians are a pretty good reflection of the voters. These people are our neighbours. If your Government is not up to snuff, it is your fault. You helped put them there. Either you voted for them or you did not work hard enough to elect some one better.

How hard did you work to get a good candidate nominated. How many doors did you knock on to get a good candidate elected.

How many people did you drive to the polls. How well did you get to know the person you were campaigning for.

If you just go and vote and not take part in actually campaigning for an honest, decent intelligent candidate, then you damn well deserve the government you get.

[On Guard for Thee]

Let's recap...you stated that it should be the Immigration minister announcing this foreign aid plan and I have clearly shown you that you are wrong.

You have also claimed that Canada only gave money because of recent incidents involving Chris Alexander, however I have provided further information showing that Canada has been giving aid back since March when Syria wasn't a bleeding heart story to you. So again I showed you are wrong.

Now your only hope is to focus on the pablum and talk about Harper? This has nothing to do with Harper or me supporting him. It has EVERYTHING to do with you getting it wrong once again. You've been shown the door, I suggest you take it.

Show the door by you? Don't think so. Where is Chris Alexander do you suppose? Under the same bus as Joe Oliver maybe? Harper's record on immigration is what it is. His vapid reaction to the Syrian crisis is just more of the same. When he saw how badly it was coming back to bite him in the polls, he scrambled to unfurl a hundred million bucks to try to pave over his failure. Ain't gonna wash I'm afraid.

[Accountability Now]

Show the door by you? Don't think so. Where is Chris Alexander do you suppose? Under the same bus as Joe Oliver maybe? Harper's record on immigration is what it is. His vapid reaction to the Syrian crisis is just more of the same. When he saw how badly it was coming back to bite him in the polls, he scrambled to unfurl a hundred million bucks to try to pave over his failure. Ain't gonna wash I'm afraid.

Trivia question...who is the Minister of International Development. You know....the group that handles foreign aid situations. Hint....it's not Chris Alexander which should give you the first clue that he won't be involved and not center stage on this story.

I'll wait for your answer....

Edited September 13, 2015 by Accountability Now

[On Guard for Thee]

Trivia question...who is the Minister of International Development. You know....the group that handles foreign aid situations. Hint....it's not Chris Alexander which should give you the first clue that he won't be involved and not center stage on this story.

I'll wait for your answer....

And you think that's all there is to Alexander's disappearance eh? OK, eat that pablum. Harper will love you for it. As he sinks out of sight.

[Queenmandy85]

One of the problems governments have had since the time of the pharaohs, where there is a lot of money, pirates will gather. Whether it was the suppliers for Commodore Anson's voyage, or the sponsorship program under the previous Liberal government. Where there is a lot of cash, pirates will move in to steal it. Government deal with a lot of cash, so that is where the thieves will gather. Like a famous bank robber once replied when asked why he robbed banks, "Because that's where the money is." It isn't the fault of any particular political party, it is simply a fact of life that we must constanly guard against.

[Accountability Now]

And you think that's all there is to Alexander's disappearance eh? OK, eat that pablum. Harper will love you for it. As he sinks out of sight.

Bzzzz...wrong. The correct answer is Christian Paradis. Thanks for playing though.

This is an International Development issue so Alexander is not involved. When he is needed for an Immigration issue then he'll be there. Or would you prefer Mr Alexander address health, finance and perhaps aboriginal affairs issues too?

The funny thing is you keep accusing me of following Harper blindly. Yet I have posted that i agreed that Harper lied in his statement about immigration assuming you go word for word. I am able to look at facts and make intelligent conclusions. It's really sad that you have zero ability to do so yourself. You just stick to your one liners and cued up lines from your Anti Harper narrative and just roll whether it makes sense or not. Of course what did I expect from a guy who doesn't believe humans produce CO2 when they breathe!!!!

[TimG]

it not reasonable that some voters might not want to vote for the Tories on these grounds?

They say politicians are like diapers: they both need to be periodically changed for the same reasons. If Justin had not abandoned the relatively sound economic policies of the Chretien years I would probably be voting for him. Unfortunately the only palatable alternative is more of the same.

[On Guard for Thee]

Bzzzz...wrong. The correct answer is Christian Paradis. Thanks for playing though.

This is an International Development issue so Alexander is not involved. When he is needed for an Immigration issue then he'll be there. Or would you prefer Mr Alexander address health, finance and perhaps aboriginal affairs issues too?

The funny thing is you keep accusing me of following Harper blindly. Yet I have posted that i agreed that Harper lied in his statement about immigration assuming you go word for word. I am able to look at facts and make intelligent conclusions. It's really sad that you have zero ability to do so yourself. You just stick to your one liners and cued up lines from your Anti Harper narrative and just roll whether it makes sense or not. Of course what did I expect from a guy who doesn't believe humans produce CO2 when they breathe!!!!

OMG you still haven't understood the closed carbon cycle. How could you possibly get politics? BTW, shifting the issue from Alexander to Paradis is only subterfuge. Apparently it does work on some folks though.

[Accountability Now]

OMG you still haven't understood the closed carbon cycle. How could you possibly get politics? BTW, shifting the issue from Alexander to Paradis is only subterfuge. Apparently it does work on some folks though.

Yup...still hopeless. Tell you what....keep copying and pasting your same Anti Harper rhetoric without any original thoughts. It seems to have served you well this far, especially with your recent bluster on the International Development issue at hand.

Having said that, I can't hold your hand any longer.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yup...still hopeless. Tell you what....keep copying and pasting your same Anti Harper rhetoric without any original thoughts. It seems to have served you well this far, especially with your recent bluster on the International Development issue at hand.

Having said that, I can't hold your hand any longer.

It's very likely past your bed time. Leave the rest of it to us adult.

Edited September 13, 2015 by On Guard for Thee

[Accountability Now]

It's very likely past your bed time. Leave the rest of it to us adult.

I would if I knew you had the first clue. As per your recent posts, I can conclude that you certainly do not. Sweet dreams and don't have too many nightmares about Harper!

[On Guard for Thee]

I would if I knew you had the first clue. As per your recent posts, I can conclude that you certainly do not. Sweet dreams and don't have too many nightmares about Harper!

All Harper nightmares will end Oct 20. He and Chris will be nestled under the bus.

[Moonlight Graham]

Personally, I think your rhetoric is simply a reflection of your biases. i.e. if politicians do not institute policies that you like you ascribe nefarious motives. If the institute policies you like you presume altruistic motives. The politicians themselves are exactly the same no matter what party they represent or the policies they support.

Why is this any different than the Liberal approach to gun control or immigration, or the NDP approach to unions or various social justice causes? Seems to me this is just more of you ascribing nefarious motives to politicians that fail to enact policies that you support.

My biases? A crock of crap Tim. Assumptions you just pulled straight out of your rump with no evidence whatsoever. What "policies" are you referring to? If policies I don't like get turned into law through legitimate democratic action, well I still don't agree with them but that's democracy at work, isn't it? In the end, I will disagree (as is my right and duty) but I can live with that, because I respect democracy.

I'm not talking at all about policy issues I agree or disagree with like the economy, foreign policy, taxes, immigration etc. I'm talking about our democracy, and Harper's disrespect for the very functions of our democracy. The control addiction the man has, muzzling federal scientists, muzzling cabinet and other MP's, his control of and disdain for the fourth estate (news media), including his refusal to debate publicly on major media, his gagging MP's from debating and news interviews, ignoring his own freaking fixed-date election law in 2008!,.BS with the Duffy affair, the 2 tactical prorogations to avoid defeat and avoid questioning on the Afghan detainee scandal, the frequent number of unconstitutional laws passed by his MP's later struck down by the Supreme Court (and Harper has nominated 7 of the 9 Justices himself!). I can go on and on...

I never said the other federal parties, especially the Liberals (the other parties haven't formed a government federally so it's harder to judge them), are much if any better. I've given no support in my argument for voting for some other party. My point is, we need to defend our democracy, and demand better. My focus is on Harper and the CPC because they've been in power as government for the last decade. My feelings were very similar under the Chretien/Martin Liberals, and the McGuinty Ontario Liberals, as I stated. But actually you're right, I should have focused my argument less on Harper/CPC and in all the crooked liars as a whole. My mistake. As I said, I guess I'm just really tired of the BS of this current government. You're right, I don't expect the next to be much better no matter the party. You've never seen me state much if any support for any of our political parties on MLW. I don't want to make this a partisan bash-fest. We all need to demand better of all parties, all politicians.

[Moonlight Graham]

No TimG.... "the other guys are just as bad" is not an excuse.

This is one of my points. It shouldn't be a race to the bottom.

[Smallc]

This is one of my points. It shouldn't be a race to the bottom.

I don't think it's a race to the bottom, I just think that sometimes we expect too much from other human beings.

[Moonlight Graham]

Humanity is corrupt. Believing someone is better on that front because of political affiliation is naive and partisan.

Nobody's perfect (as I stated, I'm not looking for perfection). but I know people who are largely respectful and honest much of the time. I also know people who are far less than that, basically jerks who will lie and cheat and screw anyone over the get themselves ahead. There's all sorts of people in between. It comes down to what kind of people you want running your government for you?

"Humanity is corrupt" is a lame cop-out excuse. Throw your hands up then, do nothing, do not demand better, live with the status quo. Frankly, that's "loser talk". We can do better, we just don't demand it. It is a fact that politicians will do anything we ask of them, because if they don't they will lose their jobs.