.

[Civis Romanus sum]

There's no threat from "there" and our being there only makes the threat here worse.

There's no immediate threat from there. The intercession is partly humanitarian, a response to the bloody excesses and genocide of ISIS, and partly strategic, in that nobody wants the 'caliphate' to succeed and become a growing bastion of radical Islamic violence. That would eventually threaten us.

[Black Dog]

The cause of Syrian refugees is Muslim on Muslim violence, terrorism and centuries old war between Shiites and Sunnis.

However it is par for the course for trendy knee jerk leftists to scapegoat Harper. They won't acknowledge the Muslim on Muslim violence is the cause. What they will do is knee jerk react to a picture of a white baby on a beach.

Nobody is saying Harper is the cause of the crisis. Good lord, man: it's too early to be hitting the bottle.

[Black Dog]

There's no immediate threat from there. The intercession is partly humanitarian, a response to the bloody excesses and genocide of ISIS, and partly strategic, in that nobody wants the 'caliphate' to succeed and become a growing bastion of radical Islamic violence. That would eventually threaten us.

There's no long-term threat from there either. The threat is and will continue to be from within from people radicalized by anti-western beliefs and motivate by the idea of the west waging war on Islam, which our (minuscule) contributions to the effort will only encourage.

[The_Squid]

While western nations are being browbeaten for not doing enough to help, the Arab world's richest countries are doing nothing at all.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/04/the-arab-worlds-wealthiest-nations-are-doing-next-to-nothing-for-syrias-refugees/

-k

Absolutely true... Despotic regimes count on this. But it means that the rest of us have to pick up their slack.

Oh, and our gov't shouldn't call them our allies and maybe some sanctions would be nice.

Instead, we sell them weapons.

[Big Guy]

Canada did have a history of turning away refugees:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1174272-canada-turned-away-jewish-refugees

Since then, we have been more accommodating.

[cribone]

The Conservative Government rarely admits one of its ministers made a mistake during non-election times. there's no chance in hell they'll do it during an election. Besides I don't think Alexander didn't say anything the Conservatives and their base don't believe.

[On Guard for Thee]

Chris Alexander was interviewed on The Current this am and once again he continues to embarrass himself and his government by constantly trying to conflate and confuse by quoting numbers from years ago that relate to Iraq and have naught to do with Syria, which was the topic being discussed. If he keeps that up he may find himself crowded under that bus with others who fail the talking point drill.

[cybercoma]

While western nations are being browbeaten for not doing enough to help, the Arab world's richest countries are doing nothing at all.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/04/the-arab-worlds-wealthiest-nations-are-doing-next-to-nothing-for-syrias-refugees/

-k

This is really despicable of them. They have the material resources to take in these refugees and should be doing more. Nevertheless, Canada has made commitments and reneged on them. We should be holding our government responsible for the commitments that it makes and Syrians should be demanding more of their neighbours..

[cybercoma]

I see you are worried about Canada hitting 7% unemployment....Nova Scotia is at 8%. You're ok with adding numbers to this?

I see you don't understand, not only how social assistance works, but how immigrants affect unemployment rates. The truth is that they don't. They're sponsored and they tend to add to the economy, not take away from it.

[cybercoma]

And why would we expect them to? We know what these places are all about.

Frankly, I don't know why people want to see refugees adopted by places with some of the worst human rights abuses on the planet, but countries that aren't as bad, such as UAE, should be stepping up here.

[cybercoma]

Nobody is saying Harper is the cause of the crisis. Good lord, man: it's too early to be hitting the bottle.

Line up dem strawmen, hoss. We gunna have a bonfire!

[cybercoma]

Oh, and our gov't shouldn't call them our allies and maybe some sanctions would be nice.

Instead, we sell them weapons.

Exactly.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Damn Arab Sheikhs sitting on their rich asses and not raising a finger to help their Arab brothers and former countrymen sharing the same culture and religion at the time of need. These corrupt rich American sponsored so called allies of US Sheikhs, rich in oil and empty in brains with billions in Swiss banks and Casinos in Europe should be overthrown and thrown to the sharks in the Arabian seas. Shame on them.

Edited September 4, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[cybercoma]

Damn Arab Sheikhs sitting on their rich asses and not raising a finger to help their Arab brothers

Then again, Mighty AC did post this in the other thread:

Looks like many of those Arab brothers are doing a lot more per capita for refugees in general than Canada.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Then again, Mighty AC did post this in the other thread:



Looks like many of those Arab brothers are doing a lot more per capita for refugees in general than Canada.

I think you should try again.

First of all there are ONLY THREE Arab states in the chart out of 33 listed. Lebanon and Jordan (and Syria - what the hell is Syria doing there? They are the source of refugees not the destination!!!!!!).

Second and most important of all, I said RICH Arab states (and oil rich states are Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Arab Emirates and Qatar being run by Sheikhs. Neither of those three Arab states are rich or have oil!!!).

Edited September 4, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Spiderfish]

Nobody is saying Harper is the cause of the crisis. Good lord, man: it's too early to be hitting the bottle.

Uh huh...Well, er...almost nobody.

Harper led Canada into our involvement in Afghanistan, the bombing of Libya and now the bombing of Iraq and Syria without any consideration of the consequences or responsibility for our actions to the civilians in these countries. He will have to live with that. I trust that the next government will not be as fast to pull the trigger.

The roots to this mess go back a long way but it wasn't until we started fertilizing those roots that it spread and worsened to the extent it has.

[Spiderfish]

I enjoyed this little gem.

If this was another government in another time, yes... the Minister would resign after such a huge embarrassment. But this gov't is so cynical that the Minister himself could be over there drowning refugees with his boot on their heads as they gasp for air and there still wouldn't be a resignation.

Yes, Harper and his government are metaphorically/rhetorically drowning refugees with their lack of action. Very dramatic, and descriptive...well done.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Spiderfish

[Army Guy]

There's no threat from "there" and our being there only makes the threat here worse.

You mean no direct threat to Canada....or her interests abroad....

And our military action in Iraq has made us a target.....how so exactly ? and how are we making things worse?

[The_Squid]

I enjoyed this little gem.

Yes, Harper and his government are rhetorically drowning refugees with their lack of action. Very dramatic, and descriptive...well done.

Thank you... But you missed the point a bit...

I don't think anyone can blame anyone in gov't for what happens to individual refugees, as tragic as their circumstances are. It's the inaction up until something tragic happens that is the problem.

They haven't met their targets, they have buried the process in so much red tape that it is taking years to get anyone out and they haven't done a thing to address the problem. Just some nice words that actually are opposite to what the facts are. That is what the Minister should be ashamed of and resigning over.

The complete ineptitude and inaction of the entire process. It took pictures of a little dead boy to get the Minister to go to Ottawa to "deal with the issue". And he blames the media for not putting it in the headlines. This Minister has been a complete joke on this file.

[Army Guy]

I see you don't understand, not only how social assistance works, but how immigrants affect unemployment rates. The truth is that they don't. They're sponsored and they tend to add to the economy, not take away from it.

what kind of sponsorship are you talking about, your making it sound that every Immigrant does not have an effect on tax payers....

[cybercoma]

what kind of sponsorship are you talking about, your making it sound that every Immigrant does not have an effect on tax payers....

That's not even close to what I'm saying.

[Army Guy]

Thank you... But you missed the point a bit...

I don't think anyone can blame anyone in gov't for what happens to individual refugees, as tragic as their circumstances are. It's the inaction up until something tragic happens that is the problem.

They haven't met their targets, they have buried the process in so much red tape that it is taking years to get anyone out and they haven't done a thing to address the problem. Just some nice words that actually are opposite to what the facts are. That is what the Minister should be ashamed of and resigning over.

The complete ineptitude and inaction of the entire process. It took pictures of a little dead boy to get the Minister to go to Ottawa to "deal with the issue". And he blames the media for not putting it in the headlines. This Minister has been a complete joke on this file.

What kind of red tape are we talking about, it all over the media, even become a talking point from the opposition leaders.....so what is classified as red tape....if it was doing back ground checks, criminal record checks, past employment records, skills or education then i'm for it.....making sure we don't just open the flood gates hear onlt to find out later, one of these syrians was a member of a death squad, or terrorists......making sure we get the people we are looking for.....before we invest in them for not only their future but ours as well....

As for the pictures.....like Justin said you don't get compassionate over night....like they all did....even justin.... there is a system already in place, if it is red tape or delaying measures then i would agree with you, but if it is for security then i understand.....

[Army Guy]

That's not even close to what I'm saying.

Then please explain.....

[cybercoma]

Then please explain.....

A wide array of scholars and organizations have supported Canada's immigration policy. In 1995 economic research firm DRI-McGraw Hill Inc. react with alarm to proposed reductions in immigration levels. They acknowledged that immigration comes with short term costs, but argued that in the long run immigration boosts employment and economic output.^[16] One of the most ringing endorsements of a high immigration rate came from the 1991 report by the Economic Council of Canada, the first detailed analysis of Canadian policy. It called for immigration to be increased to eventually bring Canada's population to 100 million. While it found that the economic benefits to Canada of immigration were fairly small, the benefits to the newcomers themselves were extremely large. The report concluded that "it would be hard not to recommend an increase when immigrants can gain so much and Canadians not only do not lose but actually make slight economic gains."^[17][18] In 2005 a report by the Royal Bank of Canada called for boosting Canada's immigration rate by 30% to 400,000 per year to ensure continued economic growth.^[19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_immigration_to_Canada

Edited September 4, 2015 by cybercoma

[Rue]

Black Dog your response to me saying no one came on this thread and blamed Harper for this crisis is typical. The entire point of the thread started by Cyber was to blame Harper, specifically posts 1,5,7,11,12,14,16,26,41.

Turning this issue into a partisan issue to piss on Harper was precisely the point of the thread and precisely why I challenged it.

The point is how do we properly address the displacement of people? No we can't selectively choose just Syrians. No we can't just knee jerk react and take in refugees with no planning, no screening, no proper support systems. Creating an arbitrary number of 30,000 as a magic number makes no sense. That was what Shady was getting at. There has to be sanity when we discuss incoming and no he is not anti anyone or cruel for saying that and neither is Argus or anyone else.

The cold practical reality is it is not practical or fair or humane to dump hundreds of thousands of people in countries they can not assimilate into.

The cold practical reality is we can take in a certain amount but that amount has to be carefully defined, then we have to screen out criminals, pedophiles, rapists, violent mentally ill people, terrorists from the incoming and that is not easy because if they make it to Canadian soil they can not be deported and are entitled to all the benefits of a Canadian citizen says the charter. We also have to identify medical, psychological and emotional issues that will need containment and treatment for years to come .

We have to find shelter, a source of financing and a whole network of social and medical support staff. That requires planning, and expenses.

No one wants to talk of that. I do. I am saying it. I am saying it because feeling sorry and just knee jerk reacting to a picture of a dead baby won't do it.

Blaming Harper and pretending as Trudeau and Mulcair did they are superior to him in compassion because he runs a government that must balance compassion with state security and medical concerns and practical logistics concerns is the utmost in b.s.

Harper can not just dump people in a province. It creates demand son the province, its cities, its school boards. A huge ripple effect is triggered without proper planning causing chaos and much pain and worse problems.

Disasters require planning, logistics, contingency plans, that can take months. No you can't address it with a Trudeau Mulcair sound bite tantrum that offers no solution just hot air.

How the phack do some of you blame the Immigration Minister? What a crock. Yah he sat there and said I want babies drowning. I hate babies. What partisan stupidity. This is no one's fault. At times like these you rally in unison you don't exploit suffering for political gain.

The cold cruel reality is that the movement of displaced Muslims from Syria is just one of many peoples suffering at this time and the capacity to move and absorb is limited. The cold cruel reality is many more will die for each one saved and the best hope for these people is to get rid of the terrorist regimes and sob's that support terrorists and refuse to acknowledge them as the root cause of this problem.

I also repeat what others have said on both sides of the debate and that is the Arab League of Nations are abandoning their moral obligation and if they claim to be Muslim they have a Muslim obligation to render charity and care to their fellow Muslims.

I am not against refugees and helping. I am also saying it has to be done with great care and planning.

For God's sakes how long ago were people screaming take in Vietnamese, take in Sri Lankans, take in Somalis. Do all the liberal knee jerk leftists who screamed that, now talk of the pressures these refugees now years later still suffer from due to their lack of ability to assimilate? Do any of you know knee jerk liberals know or discuss the rate of crime, suicide, incest, drug and alcohol addiction in their communities? Do you discuss the domestic violence, mental illness in these communities? Do you know what is happening to the next generation growing up in their communities? Of course not.

Maybe you need to look at that when you tknee jerk reaction. We haven't even addressed their serious issues and you want to add to that with yet more refugees who will undergo the same problems. You think our social service net can simply handle that?

What do you think happens in terms of cost for policing, medical services, schools?

There are phenomena that ripple down through many layers of the federal, provincial and municipal governments and school boards, hospitals, police, on and on.

Did you knee jerk reactions think by taking in new refugees you might make it actually worse without proper planning for the older ones still not assimilated? Of course not.

Its all well and good to be compassionate. But we must do it in a way that makes sense because we can't save the entire world. We can try help but we can't do it all and the solution in the years to come will require not just some of you knee jerk reacting but cold hard military action to counter terrorism and tyrannical regimes so people do not have to flee in the first place.

No Canadian, no Harper, no one is to blame. No one. Its life. Its cold cruel life and Muslim on Muslim violence, or in other countries, poverty brought on by desertification. Stop looking to blame Harper, the US or Europe but let off the hook the failure of the Arab League, Brazil, Argentina, Japan, China, Russia to assist as well. Stop assuming only the US, Canada and Europe are to blame for the violence of others. We are not.

I don't want to see refugees hurt even worse with false promises, patronizing assumptions and simply being used as an object to assuage the guilt of some self entitled pretentious pricks.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Rue