The cost of Migrants

[Canada_First]

Just so you know....listening to conservative talk radio isn't sitting in a muslim enclave. The irony of your comment is staggering.

I don't listen to talk radio. Lol. Thanks for the laugh.

[cybercoma]

By speeding up the process you mean the influx of ~100000 Vietnamese refugees settled in Canada from the end of the Vietnam war in 1975 through to ~1985? Likewise, why would their have been "filthy commies" fleeing their workers paradise?

No, I mean the 50,000 that were settled between 1979-1980. And the commies were probably hiding amongst them for the same reason the islamofascists are hiding amongst Syrians.

[Canada_First]

So-called people? Wow, what a scumbag thing to say. There's been some bigoted arguments made on this forum, but this is one of the most bigoted things anyone has ever said here.

I'm sorry but homosexual hating, woman abusing, woman degrading, clannish closed type tribes don't count as people in a modern society. Sorry.

I don't see why you're so quick to defend people who kill gays or at least jail them. View women as property and pretty much refuse to assimilate. Why are you defending that and wanting to import millions mire like them into Canada?

Is it because you hate Canada and are trying to destroy it? Tell us why you defend these people. If whites had the same attitudes you'd be going crazy but because they're brown they get a pass. Explain.

[cybercoma]

You know I criticize both you AND them for dehumanizing people, right?

[Canada_First]

No, I mean the 50,000 that were settled between 1979-1980. And the commies were probably hiding amongst them for the same reason the islamofascists are hiding amongst Syrians.

So all the Syrians are good friendly people who view women as equals and value homosexuals? Is that your position?

[WIP]

A reflection of what I have read recently - A total surprise.

I can't believe the fear mongering and even hate on this board about Muslims in so many threads. Comments ranging from describing them as desert born, to those claiming they are mostly rapists or ALL disrespectful to women and then those who claim they would form an Islamic state and drive us out!!. I mean come on!!! does this reflect the Canadian view on the subject? If so then my heart goes out to all those Muslims residing in Canada facing hatred and regarded as a danger or a virus every day and everywhere. But I don't think so. Not remotely.

Considering that there are only slightly over one million Muslims in Canada (slightly over 3% of population) and many of them are not even religious or practicing Muslims and the fact that 4 out of every 5 newcomer is a non-Muslim, I cannot call all these comments anything but fear mongering or ignorance or bigotry. Or may be all of above.

I've said it before that I'm betting the ones preparing for Muslim invasion don't know any Muslims personally, or likely have never spoken to a Muslim in person.

But, if we use the US example, right wing anti-immigrant hysteria does not depend on religion; the hysteria about Mexicans taking over "Our" Country applies using most of the same tropes. The same arguments and tactics have been in use since the nativists of the 1850's started fomenting hysteria about Irish immigration.

My main objection to this crap is that nobody talking about costs...of any kind, are acknowledging that refugees and even the substantial portion of immigrants, are victims of forces beyond their control...many of which actually still controlled by western colonial powers. When millions of people pick up and move en mass to refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey etc., and then want to go to Europe a few years later, they are not moving for the weather or because they are footsoldiers for the Islamic Conquest of Europe...and related idiocy!

[cybercoma]

So all the Syrians are good friendly people who view women as equals and value homosexuals? Is that your position?

That's exactly my position. They're all great lovely people. Every single person.

[cybercoma]

My main objection to this crap is that nobody talking about costs...of any kind, are acknowledging that refugees and even the substantial portion of immigrants, are victims of forces beyond their control...many of which actually still controlled by western colonial powers. When millions of people pick up and move en mass to refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey etc., and then want to go to Europe a few years later, they are not moving for the weather or because they are footsoldiers for the Islamic Conquest of Europe...and related idiocy!

And you can see this in the Conservative narrative when they were confronted about the Syrian refugees, but then provided immigration numbers. It completely ignores what refugees go through and why they're a completely different class from immigrants. It ignores the purpose for international treaty agreements to rehome refugees around the world. If you compare refugees to people who've made an economic decision to move to another country, then you can stoke fears about those refugees choosing to come here to "destroy our way of life." This is completely insulting to the fact that they're moving here because their lives have been destroyed and they're trying to survive.

[Canada_First]

I'm African which has a lot of Muslims and us probably the most violent content on the planet so please don't tell me about violence and Muslims. Thank you.

Muslims are Muslims first. The religion is behind every decision they make. From when they pray to where they work to who they associate with, what they eat. When they eat. They are an insular people and want nothing to do with assimilton. They wish to live in an Islamic society where ever they are.

They don't care about our laws ways or traditions. They will push thier agenda using our socially liberal ways against us. Guilting us into giving into thier demands. Bit by bit theyre going to get there way. Because we're too afraid to say no to the brown people. As that would be deemed racist.

In about 100 years Canada will be an Islamic State. Europe much sooner than that. Unless we wake up and push the black sheep from our shores.

[WIP]

25,000 sounds like a drop in the bucket, but that's a little deceptive. The 25,000 won't be spread evenly about the country. They'll be landing in neighborhoods like Edmonton's Mill Woods, and equivalent neighborhoods in Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, and Ottawa, because those neighborhoods already have prominent Muslim presence. So now you're not talking about 25,000 into a population of 30,000,000 you're talking about maybe 3000 to 5000 into a population of about 80000 and it doesn't seem like a drop in the bucket anymore.

-k

Jordan isn't a very big country, and...according to the latest numbers I find on UNHCR, they are hosting more than a million refugees, mostly from Syria and Iraq....thank you war on terror! And that's likely why everyone who's a monthly contributor to UNHCR gets regular reminders ever since these regime changes started, that they need more money and resources to deal with increasing refugee crises caused by wars and climate change in Africa and Asia....btw how many of you conservatives here crapping about refugees taking over contribute a nickel to UNHCR or any other aid organizations dealing with refugee problems?

Personally, I prefer getting to the source of problems, and one of my beefs with building and maintaining refugee camps has been that it allows the US and allied colonial powers...including Canada and Europe...to just sweep the problem aside and never talk about it, until the refugees start showing up on your doorstep! Now it's time for Europe to shit or get off the pot, and it's too bad they weren't confronted about their meally-mouthed support of US adventurism before! The US is further away and leaving Europe high and dry to deal with the waves of refugees that have largely been created by the Bush/Obama administrations!

[WIP]

I'm African which has a lot of Muslims and us probably the most violent content on the planet so please don't tell me about violence and Muslims. Thank you.

Muslims are Muslims first. The religion is behind every decision they make. From when they pray to where they work to who they associate with, what they eat. When they eat. They are an insular people and want nothing to do with assimilton. They wish to live in an Islamic society where ever they are.

They don't care about our laws ways or traditions. They will push thier agenda using our socially liberal ways against us. Guilting us into giving into thier demands. Bit by bit theyre going to get there way. Because we're too afraid to say no to the brown people. As that would be deemed racist.

In about 100 years Canada will be an Islamic State. Europe much sooner than that. Unless we wake up and push the black sheep from our shores.

So, because you say you are an African, you speak for all Africans in all regions and African nations! And you have the direct, inside line on how every Muslim in the world thinks also....thanks for the insight!

[WIP]

And you can see this in the Conservative narrative when they were confronted about the Syrian refugees, but then provided immigration numbers. It completely ignores what refugees go through and why they're a completely different class from immigrants. It ignores the purpose for international treaty agreements to rehome refugees around the world. If you compare refugees to people who've made an economic decision to move to another country, then you can stoke fears about those refugees choosing to come here to "destroy our way of life." This is completely insulting to the fact that they're moving here because their lives have been destroyed and they're trying to survive.

The way conservatism is formulated in our time, it sure as hell looks like an ideological framework built around selfishness and self-interest. That can appeal to a lot of people with personal ambitions, but the conservative approach becomes cold and calculating when they respond on these sorts of issues. Everyone who doesn't think like them notices pretty quick that they have no capacity or willingness to try to understand what life is like for people that are different than them.

[Canada_First]

So, because you say you are an African, you speak for all Africans in all regions and African nations! And you have the direct, inside line on how every Muslim in the world thinks also....thanks for the insight!

No it means I have first hand experience with Muslims in there natural environment. Not just playing nice in front of TV for the sheeple of the west. You're the ones lapping it up like idiots and refuse to see the real agenda. You're one of the sheeple. Face it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Jordan isn't a very big country, and.... The US is further away and leaving Europe high and dry to deal with the waves of refugees that have largely been created by the Bush/Obama administrations!

The U.S. has given Jordan many billions of dollars per year in foreign aid since forever...long before ISIL came along. Canada...not so much. Here are the numbers for U.S. economic and military aid for 2012...set to increase because of the refugee crisis. The UNHCR has provided chump change in comparison.

• Development Assistance: $486,648
• Economic Support Fund/Security Support Assistance: $462,647,207
• Global Health and Child Survival: $20,312
• Migration and Refugee Assistance: $35,196,131
• Millennium Challenge Corporation: $276,187,045
• Narcotics Control: $1,234,105
• Nonproliferation, Anti-Terrorism, Demining and Related: $18,354,815
• Other Active Grant Programs: $2,658,565
• Other Food Aid Programs: $18,425,000
• Other State Assistance: $167,600
• Other USAID Assistance: $14,829,870
• Peace Corps: $1,432,541
• Military Assistance, Total: $303,650,000

Edited September 10, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[cybercoma]

So, because you say you are an African, you speak for all Africans in all regions and African nations! And you have the direct, inside line on how every Muslim in the world thinks also....thanks for the insight!

I'm North American. Let me tell you about Haitians.

[Canada_First]

I'm North American. Let me tell you about Haitians.

If you've lived in Haiti I'm all ears.

So you'd rather get your info from TV then from done one who has actually lived there. Baaa Baaa. ..

[CITIZEN_2015]

I'm African which has a lot of Muslims and us probably the most violent content on the planet so please don't tell me about violence and Muslims. Thank you.

Muslims are Muslims first. The religion is behind every decision they make. From when they pray to where they work to who they associate with, what they eat. When they eat. They are an insular people and want nothing to do with assimilton. They wish to live in an Islamic society where ever they are.

They don't care about our laws ways or traditions. They will push thier agenda using our socially liberal ways against us. Guilting us into giving into thier demands. Bit by bit theyre going to get there way. Because we're too afraid to say no to the brown people. As that would be deemed racist.

In about 100 years Canada will be an Islamic State. Europe much sooner than that. Unless we wake up and push the black sheep from our shores.

So let me see if I understand it correctly. You yourself are an African IMMIGRANT in Canada?. You have come to Canada yourself and settled and you wish to slam the door on others?

And Africans are not violent? Remember the Rwanda massacre and mass rape in 1994 (not considering systematic rape in other parts of African continent). Considering less than 5% of that country's population are Muslims then may be we should stop taking immigrants from Africa too? Or is that we are too afraid to say no to black people? (a reference to your allegation that we are too afraid to say no to brown people!!!!) And while you are talking about OUR laws, ways and traditions (which I assume you meant Canadian not African). Well I have news for you. Canadian ways and traditions does NOT include bigotry and that makes you contrary to OUR ways and traditions as per your statements. YOU are the one who is trying to change our ways and traditions NOT most of Muslim immigrants.

It is wrong to stereotype any group of people as violent, rapists, disrespectful because some of them are and this (a minority violent, rapist, disrespectful) could be among any race or religion or group of people. This kind of bigotry is UNCANADIAN. Those who do it are not compatible with kind and compassionate Canadian culture and should have failed adaptability when they applied for immigration.

Edited September 10, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Bonam]

So let me see if I understand it correctly. You yourself are an African IMMIGRANT in Canada?. You have come to Canada yourself and settled and you wish to slam the door on others?

In fact, a large proportion of immigrants would prefer to slam the door behind them. They left their countries behind after all, and usually for a reason. Which makes it all the more odd that political parties think they can score votes by throwing the doors wide open.

[Argus]

I think you and the more rabid band of Neocons here are missing a key point: categorical rejection of Muslims...including Muslims who are already living in Canada for christs sakes!...are going to be more inclined to reject mainstream secular culture and more inclined towards extremism, the more they are rejected and despised by the majority population.

I think you and the stupider lefties here are simply making stuff up because you don't have an actual argument. Muslims have been welcomed into other nations, and that hasn't stopped many from embracing extremism. Hell, you don't get much more welcoming than the Nordic countries but that hasn't stopped extremism. Nor has Canada's welcome stopped extremism. Nor has the open secular environment in the US stopped extremism.

Nor is anyone calling for the 'rejection' of the 'despised' local Muslims. That's just your own emotional instability exaggerating things.

The divide would have ended like it does with most immigrants - once their children start going to public school. So, thank Tony Blair for facilitating the creation of education ghettoes by privatizing the public school system there...following the plan of Neoliberalism to privatize all public services. If England has an Islamic extremism problem today, it's one largely of their own creation!

What fantasy world are you taking this drivel from? You think there's no public schools in the UK any more? That the Labour government got rid of them all?! The ghettos were, as they usually are, of their own making, built up because the sheer numbers pouring into the UK from Pakistan and the like through a permissive immigration system created them. What you forget is that when the number of foreigners from a given culture build up into a self-sustaining size integration slows to a crawl. That's particularly so when you have a continuing stream of newcomers from "the old country".

This is the point where it needs to be emphasized that conservative thinkers...who sound the alarm and start building walls and fortresses as soon as they see someone who looks and acts differently from them!

Given Toronto and Vancouver are both half foreign born, don't you think such an alarm would have been sounded decades ago? In fact, Arabs are a lot more 'similar looking' to caucasions than Asians or Blacks, and people aren't complaining about them. This is the typical cliched bleating of Letfists who don't have any logic behind their arguments and have to resort to belittling those who disagree with them instead.

Being a liberal thinker...especially in troubled times...is the pov that actually takes real courage.

I've never considered your opinions here to be that of a 'liberal thinker' so much as one utterly divorced from reality - and at times sanity.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Yes you are wrong there. We need to bring in progressive people (individuals) not progressive continent. There are many other progressive people in other 4 continents too and you wish to exclude them simply because they aren't born in Europe.

Many progressive people in the third world? A very, very small percentage, actually. I mean, people's values usually reflect that of their societies, and I can't think of any progressive non-white societies, except perhaps for Japan, which doesn't produce many emigrants.Nor can you adequately test people for their 'progressive' attitude. Simpler to give preference to people from an area of the world where the culture is already progressive.

And though I agree percentage-wise it is higher in Europe who can adopt best or fastest to Canada however you cannot outright exclude four/fifth of the world population based on that.

You are making the mistake many do of thinking the immigration system has to somehow be fair to foreigners around the world. It doesn't. The only thing the immigration system needs to do is produce the best immigrants for Canada.

[Argus]

Considering that there are only slightly over one million Muslims in Canada (slightly over 3% of population) and many of them are not even religious or practicing Muslims and the fact that 4 out of every 5 newcomer is a non-Muslim, I cannot call all these comments anything but fear mongering or ignorance or bigotry. Or may be all of above.

Why don't you stop with the knee jerking and accusations. People are putting forth opinions and arguments. Address the arguments or shut up.

Yes, there are over one million Muslims in Canada at last census. But their numbers are doubling every ten years. There are already, as you point out, three times more Muslims than there are Jews in Canada. Their current numbers are expected to triple by 2020, and with that their influence on our culture and our politics and our laws. It's not ignorant or bigoted to be concerned with how the growing number of people with socially regressive beliefs impact our country and culture.

[Argus]

Here Here! well said.

Of course you would congratulate someone for calling people names. That's what you do best, yourself.

[Argus]

If the Holocaust were an accurate reflection of Germany's present day state, I doubt Muslims would be rioting to get into Germany.

-k

It's one of their 'go to' arguments whenever one points out the regressive and backward beliefs of the world's Muslms. "Look at how evil those people who lived a couple of generations ago were in Germany!"

[Argus]

You think harassment of gays doesn't occur from the non Muslim community. My son is gay. I know all about it. The Muslim community doesn't have this market cornered.

Has your son been imprisoned for being gay lately? Want him to be? Send him to a Muslim country. Any one will do.

[Argus]

Lesson #232

This is how we get most of our permanent residents.

Cite? Evidence please.