The cost of Migrants

[drummindiver]

I think you're ignoring or discounting that lefties also understand we're talking about taking in victims of circumstances we also feel a lot of our own conservative thinking had a hand in creating. Maybe you think it's rude of us to do so but the cognitive dissonance of having to swallow conservative prescriptions for the consequences of conservative actions that helped create the circumstances in the first place is pretty galling.

The people screaming the loudest about the threat of taking in religious conservatives is other conservatives. If religious conservatism is such a danger to the well-being of our secular society than I suggest our governments mount a public education program that warns everyone of it including refugees.

Please. al-Assad bombing his own ppl was not of our making.

Piss off with the "we created a power vaccuum and this is why they killed hundreds of thousands and tortured and raped thousands".

We created ISIS and all their evil acts our our fault because we got rid of Hussein. Please.

Civilized people don't act like that just because they need a new leader.

[drummindiver]

That is totally inaccurate according to what both of those party leaders have stated they would do. And at least they have both stated they would actually DO something vis a vis the Harper sit on your hands approach.

The government was already working on expediting refugees.

And, as he said, the government's job is not just accepting refugees, but keeping Canadians safe.

I know this means nothing to the left, but does to some other Canadians.

[Rue]

Peter F you made a well thought out response to me. Thank you.

I agree with Kimmy that I find the same knee jerk liberals screaming we take in Syrians are the same who accommodate their bigotry and intolerant views in the name of liberalism. They can't have it both ways. Something has got to give.

That said my comments are directed at any people wanting to come here and retain their intolerant beliefs not just Muslims-anyone.

The problem is you knee jerk liberals refuse to acknowledge not all the refugees you now scream for will assimilate and embrace the values you expect them to. No they will not want to serve you Big Macs and wash your car or drive your taxis. No they will not become your new step and fetch it class that makes you feel good about yourself that you saved these savages from themselves and brought them to the promised land.

My position is one that is neither anti or pro refugee-I argue we should help genuine refugees from all over the world not just Syria because its the trend of the day but we have to be realistic about what we are doing and whether as some posters have said, we might be doing more a better service helping them stay in their country, not leave by assisting them get rid of their extremist fundamentalist terrorist rulers and help them build projects at home to make them independent.

Dumping thousands in Canada to ease someone's guilt feeling is not addressing the problem, just a symptom causing guilt to some of you.

I find it interesting the same people demanding Syrians come here now don't seem to be writing in about the state of Africans who want to come here, the Afghanis, the Iraqis, etc. What happened? Why the focus only on Syrians. What about the Congo, Rwanda, Malawi, Niger, Chad? Well?

How about our native people? Where are you same knee jerkers writing in tat we have to do something about the pandemic of suicide in the native communities? What makes you select the causes you do and ignore the rest and think the way to deal with a crisis is to react to a photo which is what many of you are doing?

How is it none of you find politicians exploiting the picture of a dead baby to get votes not under the scope of your moral outrage?

One last thing. Saying 25,000 is a drop in the bucket when they are placed in cities as one poster said shows a profound ignorance as to settlement phenomena associated with placing refugees in cities, shockingly so. You don't just dump people in cities, and poof they assimilate and all is well.

No they add to an already strained and often failing safety net. They don't just go to Tim Horton's and play hockey. What is the matter with some of you? You need to take the time to understand how much money it costs per refugee to settle and what kinds of medical, social and other problems they undergo and what it does in terms of a ripple effect mental illness, physical illness and our medical and educational systems.

The school boards in cities are full of children who do not speak English, rely on other students to translate for them, have watered down the class room to the point where all students including those born in Canada are not learning a damn thing. You've now got adults demanding their children be removed from school because they don't want them involved not just in sex education but sports, art.

Many of the people some of you call refugees go back to their countries on vacation for months on end pulling their children from school.

What the hell will it take to get some of you to understand placing refugees in cities, may make them invisible to you and so out of sight out of mind and you can hurry off to some film festival and talk about a new cause of the week, but it is causing serious problems straining the fabric of our society.

These are the issues you knee jerkers won't discuss.

I do agree with one thing though with some of the people I disagree with on this discussion and that is negatively stereotyping all Muslims is not fair. Its not fair because to say all Muslims are the same is b.s. Amidyah, Ismaili Muslims for example are not Shiite or Sunni. They have different beliefs that lend themselves to assimilation a lot easier. Certain Shiites from Iran are very Westernized and came here to get away from Muslim Shiite extremism. Its not fair to call them extremist. Likewise certain Sunnis came here to get away from religious crap. They then get labelled as extremist. Its not fair to them.

There are genuine Muslims who keep their beliefs in perspective and do not use their religion to justify hatred against Israel, Christians, Jews, Canadian moral values. They are rational, peaceful, and trying to build a tolerant Canada but its hard for them because they get drowned out and shut down when political events happen that polarize people.

I think we need to be careful in debate to point out what some of us despise are fundamentalists of any kind and if they are Muslim we can't criticize that. We criticize fundamentalist Jews and Christians every day. Muslims should not be exempt from criticism for such beliefs.

If you think the people you want placed in Canada will magically become tolerant you are mistaken. Some will. Some won't. What will you do with those who you bring in that despise your values and will try opt out of society and demand accommodation for their exclusivity and discriminatory beliefs?

Are you knee jerk liberals willing to discuss it or continue to avoid it with lip service?

[cybercoma]

All of these so called people

So-called people? Wow, what a scumbag thing to say. There's been some bigoted arguments made on this forum, but this is one of the most bigoted things anyone has ever said here.

[Big Guy]

To Derek 2.0 and the other pro-military members of this board. One of the most right wing military people - General Richard Hillier - has recommended that Canada accept 50,000 refugees this year. He is philosophically and politically a conservative and certainly has a better idea of security than anyone on this board.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/the-gargoyle-hillier-wants-canada-to-accept-50000-refugees-by-end-of-year

Why is he wrong and you folks are right?

Edited September 10, 2015 by Big Guy

[On Guard for Thee]

Ahhh no, its quite accurate:

Where are these resources? CIC states it takes upwards of a year+ to process a refugee.

Political will does not equate to good public policy.

Both the LPC and NDP have included in their plans to increase officials abroad to speed up the screening of the refugees.

[On Guard for Thee]

The government was already working on expediting refugees.

And, as he said, the government's job is not just accepting refugees, but keeping Canadians safe.

I know this means nothing to the left, but does to some other Canadians.

That's his excuse this week.

[cybercoma]

Both the LPC and NDP have included in their plans to increase officials abroad to speed up the screening of the refugees.

You mean they're not just going to put everyone on planes and ship them over here? BS! Trudeau is an Islamofascist! He's trying to change Canada's demographics so we become a Islamic theocratic dictatorship and he'll be the head dictator!

[On Guard for Thee]

You mean they're not just going to put everyone on planes and ship them over here? BS! Trudeau is an Islamofascist! He's trying to change Canada's demographics so we become a Islamic theocratic dictatorship and he'll be the head dictator!

Are you sure he's ready?

[cybercoma]

Not ready to be a mullah, not ready to be glorious leader.

[Derek 2.0]

To Derek 2.0 and the other pro-military members of this board. One of the most right wing military people - General Richard Hillier - has recommended that Canada accept 50,000 refugees this year. He is philosophically and politically a conservative and certainly has a better idea of security than anyone on this board.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/the-gargoyle-hillier-wants-canada-to-accept-50000-refugees-by-end-of-year

Why is he wrong and you folks are right?

I don't think the retired General's sentiments are wrong, but (like Trudeau and Mulcair) has yet to explain how the current process can be cut down by all most 2/3rds the time, with 5xs the proposed refugees............Likewise, I disagree with your assessment on his credentials, Hillier's opinion would carry more weight if the discussion was involving a peacemaking operation in Iraq/Syria, but it clearly is not.........hence, until a senior/former member of the RCMP/CSIS/CBSA/CIC explains how the process could be sped up to meet such lofty goals, I'll differ to the present process timeline as highlighted above from CIC.

[Derek 2.0]

Both the LPC and NDP have included in their plans to increase officials abroad to speed up the screening of the refugees.

Where have they done so, and where do said officials come from? Do they propose pulling CIC/CBSA agents from other visa centers, hence reducing the process from other regions in the World?

[Derek 2.0]

You mean they're not just going to put everyone on planes and ship them over here? BS! Trudeau is an Islamofascist! He's trying to change Canada's demographics so we become a Islamic theocratic dictatorship and he'll be the head dictator!

Might as well.........as neither Mulcair or Trudeau have yet to offer any details on how they would speed-up said process.

[On Guard for Thee]

Where have they done so, and where do said officials come from? Do they propose pulling CIC/CBSA agents from other visa centers, hence reducing the process from other regions in the World?

In case you haven't heard, there is a serious plight among refugees in a specific part of the world just now. I think that's when you might must think about focusing resources in that specific region.

[Scotty]

It seems like your kind of people like to pretend they care about gay people when it gives them a chance to complain about Muslims.

I'd like to address this. I'm not entirely comfortable with the in-your-face demands of the gay community that I have to 'respect' them as being completely the same as everyone else.. I admit, in other words to some disapproval, and even then mostly on a case by case basis. But I sure as hell would be opposed to putting them in prison, let alone executing them. Nor would I befriend those who do feel that way, and would not be thrilled at the idea of bringing hundreds of thousands of such people to Canada. Your suggesting those who frown at two gay men holding hands should welcome those who want to kill them is foolish. It's like saying that since I'm conservative I shouldn't be critical of Nazis. Or if I'm left wing I shouldn't be critical of Communists. I don't like extremists of any ilk, be they political or religious.

I find it as funny as when progressives bend over backwards to excuse and accommodate bigotry... if it comes from brown people.

I don't find that funny. I find it stupid and hypocritical.

[On Guard for Thee]

Might as well.........as neither Mulcair or Trudeau have yet to offer any details on how they would speed-up said process.

Both Mulcair and Trudeau have explained how they would do so. They have also both agreed to a non partisan meeting to discuss the issue. I guess Harper is having staff try to explain to him what this "non partisan" thing is before he will consider it.

[Scotty]

25,000 people spread between JUST those cities is absolutely a drop in the bucket. It's one quarter of one percent of the total population of those cities.

I've seen several interviews with the migrants who have reached Germany and/or are headed for Sweden. They're eager to get their papers so they can bring over their families. So 25,000 quickly becomes 100,000. Besides, Mulcair has already increased his numbers to maybe 10,000 a year. God only knows how many that wuss Trudeau will be bringing in.

[Scotty]

Last I checked, nobody is saying Kim Davis should be deported.

And what would people say if we wanted to bring 50,000 Kim Davis's to Canada?

[cybercoma]

Might as well.........as neither Mulcair or Trudeau have yet to offer any details on how they would speed-up said process.

Funny how there was no problem speeding up the process for the Vietnamese refugees and my god there could have been filthy commies on those boats!

[Scotty]

Do you suppose they'll level your neighbour's house and build an apartment building, calling it "Little Syria" and house exclusively Syrian refugees?

Because Iraqis and Egyptians and Pakistanis and Iranians are much more enlightened about womens rights?

[cybercoma]

And what would people say if we wanted to bring 50,000 Kim Davis's to Canada?

Bring her. City clerks aren't elected positions here. She'd be fired in a heartbeat. You keep missing the point that our institutions and society are strong enough to handle these things. That it's not some one-way street where immigrants come here and only have an effect on the country. The country has an effect on them. But it's like you guys want to pretend that that doesn't happen.

[cybercoma]

Because Iraqis and Egyptians and Pakistanis and Iranians are much more enlightened about womens rights?

Yeah. You're real concerned about women's rights. That's why you want to keep them out without knowing anything about the individuals applying to be in this country.

[Scotty]

I suppose that they will congregate with like-minded people in public places and harass and intimidate people who don't conform to their religious views.

People should look at what's happened in places where the Muslim population has grown pretty high, at the harassment and violence towards women and gays from Muslims in the UK, France, Sweden and Australia.

[cybercoma]

There's an Iranian girl in our department. She's only here on a student visa. She seems like any other Canadian girl working in the department. The only difference so far is that she's surprised at how remote and quite our town is, since her city had 7 million people in it. She was also surprised that we have to wait for doctors appointments, since in Iran you apparently just show up at the doctor and he takes you right away or if he's busy you go down the street to another doctor. It's certainly not like New Brunswick where you go on a waiting list for 6 years before getting a family doctor. Would I want someone like her to be a citizen? Without hesitation. I would rather she and her family be citizens here than half closed-minded bigots on this forum.

[Derek 2.0]

Funny how there was no problem speeding up the process for the Vietnamese refugees and my god there could have been filthy commies on those boats!

By speeding up the process you mean the influx of ~100000 Vietnamese refugees settled in Canada from the end of the Vietnam war in 1975 through to ~1985? Likewise, why would their have been "filthy commies" fleeing their workers paradise?