PIK Posted August 18, 2015 Report Posted August 18, 2015 He built the party he runs. Trudeau was given his in a coronation. And as I said he can talk shop with anyone, where JT can't,unless teaching them to become drama queens. And harper had to make money to survive, he did not have daddy to live off of. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
ReeferMadness Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Posted August 18, 2015 I understand that some Canadians may feel that way about publishing such a view, but that is just more of the same political dynamic, as it is clearly a partisan attack. Canadians gave the CPC a clear majority in 2011, and to the victors go the spoils. False. Despite an unprecedented level of US style attack ads run by Conservatives which demolished the public's perception of a hugely accomplished and intelligent man, the Conservatives received less than 40% of the vote. It was a broken voting system that arbitrarily awarded them with a phony majority of seats. Further, a Canadian PM has more unchecked power than in nearly any other western government. Agreed. The system was designed with the power vested in MP's, not with the PM. The PM is theoretically accountable to MP's. The parties have succeeded in undermining and inverting the system using the party leader's powers to control and subvert MP's. Instead of members of parliament being the peoples' representative in the government, they are effectively the parties' representatives back to the people. This issue has gotten steadily worse across the years but Harper took it to a whole new level. Curiously and regrettably, this issue is little understood by average Canadians who seem to get most of their political understanding from watching American TV. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Posted August 18, 2015 The left have an unshakeable belief that they are right and everyone else is wrong. However by brute force and ignorance they can turn convince anyone to believe their rubbish. They do not learn from experience, but repeat the same mistakes, each time believing that it is the fault of others for not accepting leftzo cool aid. You seem to have a belief that this drivel has anything to do with Harper being an honest man. hahahahahahaha Harper and honest man. Jeez.. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
PIK Posted August 18, 2015 Report Posted August 18, 2015 Actually harper is a very honest man who does not have the taste for money like the others do. And highly intelligent men do not get bushwhacked by ads. There is a reason for those truth ads. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Argus Posted August 18, 2015 Report Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) False. Despite an unprecedented level of US style attack ads run by Conservatives which demolished the public's perception of a hugely accomplished and intelligent man, You're referring to the American Igantief? I, like many Canadians, didn't want an American as our Prime Minister, even if he was born in Canada. I understand one of the current candidates for the Republican leader was born in Canada, too. I don't want him as our Prime Minister either. By the way, attack ads were introduced to Canada by the Liberal Party who used them with great relish and effectiveness for many years. Apparently, attack ads became a 'bad thing' around the time the time the Tories got into power. Edited August 18, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
ReeferMadness Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Posted August 18, 2015 Actually harper is a very honest man who does not have the taste for money like the others do. And highly intelligent men do not get bushwhacked by ads. There is a reason for those truth ads. Yeah. Truth ads. That's it. He's so smart and so intelligent and so selfless that nobody can ever come up with anything bad about him. No wonder you guys have such a religious devotion to this guy. He's kinda like Jesus Christ. I guess it saves money going to the liquor store when you can turn water into wine. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Posted August 18, 2015 You're referring to the American Igantief? I, like many Canadians, didn't want an American as our Prime Minister, even if he was born in Canada. I understand one of the current candidates for the Republican leader was born in Canada, too. I don't want him as our Prime Minister either. By the way, attack ads were introduced to Canada by the Liberal Party who used them with great relish and effectiveness for many years. Apparently, attack ads became a 'bad thing' around the time the time the Tories got into power. As with most things wrong with Canadian politics, the Harper Conservatives took attack ads to a whole new level. They did the same with the centralization of power in the PMO office. And wedge politics. And they stretched the rules on election law to the point where they repeatedly found themselves in criminal court. It's always the same thing with you guys. I see "they did nothing wrong" followed by "the Liberals did it too". No wonder your heroes were such a complete failure when it came to improving accountability. If you can't take accountability, why should they? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Posted August 18, 2015 False. Despite an unprecedented level of US style attack ads run by Conservatives which demolished the public's perception of a hugely accomplished and intelligent man, the Conservatives received less than 40% of the vote. It was a broken voting system that arbitrarily awarded them with a phony majority of seats. It's Canada's system....whining about "US style" anything does not a defense make. "Leader debates" on national television are also "US style"....wanna stop those too ? This issue has gotten steadily worse across the years but Harper took it to a whole new level. Curiously and regrettably, this issue is little understood by average Canadians who seem to get most of their political understanding from watching American TV. There's your trouble....Americans do not get their political understanding from watching Canadian TV. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 There's your trouble....Americans do not get their political understanding from watching Canadian TV. Do they get it from visiting Canadian political web sites? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Do they get it from visiting Canadian political web sites? No...because as indicated by another member above....many Canadians just parrot back what they see/learn on American TV and other media. This very thread is proof enough of that. Edited August 19, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 As with most things wrong with Canadian politics, the Harper Conservatives took attack ads to a whole new level. You mean they made them conservative. They did the same with the centralization of power in the PMO office. And wedge politics. I think it's more a case that you simply didn't give a damn as long as it was the Liberals doing it. But the moment the Tories came to power you were suddenly horrified at the appalling centralization of power! OMG! Suddenly, like SUDDENLY, MPs had to do what the party whip told them and committees were under the government's thumb! That was totally NEW! And they stretched the rules on election law to the point where they repeatedly found themselves in criminal court. Nothing quite compares to using government money to 'hire' ad agencies for work which was only really to be done for 'free' during election time. I don't think many of us are blind to the failings of the Harper government. I'll be the first to admit it's past it's best before date and needs to be replaced. The only problem is there's nothing available to replace them which isn't almost certainly going to be worse. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
ReeferMadness Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Posted August 19, 2015 It's Canada's system....whining about "US style" anything does not a defense make. "Leader debates" on national television are also "US style"....wanna stop those too ? You can be cute all you like. Vicious, smearing attack ads are very much American style. It's not surprising that Harper, who likes to emulate your Republicans, brought them here. There's your trouble....Americans do not get their political understanding from watching Canadian TV. You're right. It's a problem. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
socialist Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 You can be cute all you like. Vicious, smearing attack ads are very much American style. It's not surprising that Harper, who likes to emulate your Republicans, brought them here. You're right. It's a problem. One guy who's fed up with the media witch hunt who wasn't afraid to be nasty about it and it's a "zombie army of the unthinking"? Why the hostility and demonization of conservative thinkers. No wonder people are angry! Do you want a bunch of candidates who all toe one party line, like in the phony "elections" of communist countries? You think this country would be so much better off, so different, than what it is today? Stephen Harper is a good man, a good Canadian. He's done a fine job during some difficult times and we should be grateful for that. What has he done to make your life worse? Do you think Trudeau or Mulcair could have done better, that the people, this economy would be better off, that they are better men? They certainly are not. Too many people are too naive. And if they vote, everyone else suffers the bloody consequences. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 You can be cute all you like. Vicious, smearing attack ads are very much American style. It's not surprising that Harper, who likes to emulate your Republicans, brought them here. No...attacks ads in Canada certainly are far older than PM Harper's "reign of terror". But you want to keep the "US style" televised leader debates, right ? You're right. It's a problem. Have to take your word for that...another member insists that many Canadians dearly want "American content". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
ReeferMadness Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Posted August 19, 2015 One guy who's fed up with the media witch hunt who wasn't afraid to be nasty about it and it's a "zombie army of the unthinking"? You think this is the only nut in the Conservative Party? Do you want a bunch of candidates who all toe one party line, like in the phony "elections" of communist countries? No, I don't. But that's the Conservative Party for you. You think this country would be so much better off, so different, than what it is today? It would definitely be better. But make no mistake. Despite all of the political trickery his PMO could conjure, Harper hasn't changed this country near as much as he wanted. Stephen Harper is a good man, a good Canadian. He's done a fine job during some difficult times and we should be grateful for that. What has he done to make your life worse? I know it's difficult for those of you who measure a government solely by the tax rate to understand but I care about democracy. I take the long view and believe that engaging people might be difficult in the short term but will produce a better country in the long term. Harper has done his best to act like a dictator. He doesn't give a crap about anyone else's views. He has no respect for science and would run this country into the dirt on the basis of his narrow, ideological views. He doesn't even like this country. Go back and look at some of the things he's said about it while he was in the NCC. Do you think Trudeau or Mulcair could have done better, that the people, this economy would be better off, that they are better men? They certainly are not. Too many people are too naive. And if they vote, everyone else suffers the bloody consequences. I think we would have been better off with Bozo the Clown at the helm. Governments have a limited impact on economies and Harper's reputation as a good economic manager is wholly undeserved. He took a country that was in great shape, running budget and trade surpluses and left more of a banana republic economy, dependent on a single, volatile commodity. You want to see a naive person? Just look in the mirror. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
socialist Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 You think this is the only nut in the Conservative Party? No, I don't. But that's the Conservative Party for you. It would definitely be better. But make no mistake. Despite all of the political trickery his PMO could conjure, Harper hasn't changed this country near as much as he wanted. I know it's difficult for those of you who measure a government solely by the tax rate to understand but I care about democracy. I take the long view and believe that engaging people might be difficult in the short term but will produce a better country in the long term. Harper has done his best to act like a dictator. He doesn't give a crap about anyone else's views. He has no respect for science and would run this country into the dirt on the basis of his narrow, ideological views. He doesn't even like this country. Go back and look at some of the things he's said about it while he was in the NCC. I think we would have been better off with Bozo the Clown at the helm. Governments have a limited impact on economies and Harper's reputation as a good economic manager is wholly undeserved. He took a country that was in great shape, running budget and trade surpluses and left more of a banana republic economy, dependent on a single, volatile commodity. You want to see a naive person? Just look in the mirror. You're kidding, right? Is this Jon Stewart? ^ Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
ReeferMadness Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Posted August 19, 2015 You're kidding, right? Is this Jon Stewart? ^ That doesn't even make sense. I suppose this is your way of giving up. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 That doesn't even make sense. I suppose this is your way of giving up. It makes sense to me....Jon Stewart is/was another example of Canadians getting political information from American media. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
socialist Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 That doesn't even make sense. I suppose this is your way of giving up. You need your country back is right. But whom are you willing to give it to? The guy who is fighting us taxpayers in the court for he wouldn't admit that his party swallowed $3.5 million of our money to open NDP offices he wasn't legally allowed to? Or the Liberals of the Sponsorship Scandal reputation? Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
ReeferMadness Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Posted August 19, 2015 You need your country back is right. But whom are you willing to give it to? The guy who is fighting us taxpayers in the court for he wouldn't admit that his party swallowed $3.5 million of our money to open NDP offices he wasn't legally allowed to? Or the Liberals of the Sponsorship Scandal reputation? The very way you asked the question defines the problem. Our system is designed to produce a dictatorship of power. And the parties have further manipulated things so that power is concentrated in the hands of a few, mostly unelected people. It virtually guarantees that, no matter who wins, most of the people will be unhappy with the result. That's not democracy. I don't know what it is. We are a diverse country and deserve a government that is reflective of that diversity. My eyes glaze over and roll into the back of my head every time some simpleton explains to me how important it is that we have a system where a single party controls everything. We need "stability" We need "consistency". Well poop on that. I want representation and I haven't felt like I've been represented ever. Back to your original question, we need a system where evidence comes back into vogue. Even as the current knuckle dragging arseholes are increasing prison sentences, south of the border, they are realizing it doesn't produce good results and they are going the other way. Even as the current knuckle dragging aresholes are going tougher on drugs, south of the border, they are realizing that prohibition doesn't work and legalizing and/or decriminalizing marijuana. Even as renewable energy becomes cost competitive with fossil fuels and the worldwide political winds start to blow against the fossil fuel industry, our PM, the venerable "economic genius" that he is, doubles down on commodities. All the scientific evidence shows that safe injection sites save people's lives. But scientific facts bounce off this crowd like ping balls off a concrete wall. I could go on and on. It isn't just that this group is a group of conservatives with retrograde policies, it's that they are a bunch of retrograde, mean spirited, populist, dumbed-down conservatives who appeal to the least intelligent, least thoughtful and least compassionate elements of society. They don't represent the majority of Canadian views; but they do represent the worst elements of Canadian views. The rednecks, the racists, the homophobes, the social darwinists who would be only too happy to see poor people starving on the streets. These are the people who would feel at home in Harper's Conservatives. And they rode in on a horse called Accountability and they've failed miserably at that, too. Then you add in a bunch of people like you who would ignore the worst elements of the Conservatives because you lack the imagination to see better. And then add in the segment that doesn't pay attention and poof. You have a "majority government". Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
socialist Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) The very way you asked the question defines the problem. Our system is designed to produce a dictatorship of power. And the parties have further manipulated things so that power is concentrated in the hands of a few, mostly unelected people. It virtually guarantees that, no matter who wins, most of the people will be unhappy with the result. That's not democracy. I don't know what it is. We are a diverse country and deserve a government that is reflective of that diversity. My eyes glaze over and roll into the back of my head every time some simpleton explains to me how important it is that we have a system where a single party controls everything. We need "stability" We need "consistency". Well poop on that. I want representation and I haven't felt like I've been represented ever. Back to your original question, we need a system where evidence comes back into vogue. Even as the current knuckle dragging arseholes are increasing prison sentences, south of the border, they are realizing it doesn't produce good results and they are going the other way. Even as the current knuckle dragging aresholes are going tougher on drugs, south of the border, they are realizing that prohibition doesn't work and legalizing and/or decriminalizing marijuana. Even as renewable energy becomes cost competitive with fossil fuels and the worldwide political winds start to blow against the fossil fuel industry, our PM, the venerable "economic genius" that he is, doubles down on commodities. All the scientific evidence shows that safe injection sites save people's lives. But scientific facts bounce off this crowd like ping balls off a concrete wall. I could go on and on. It isn't just that this group is a group of conservatives with retrograde policies, it's that they are a bunch of retrograde, mean spirited, populist, dumbed-down conservatives who appeal to the least intelligent, least thoughtful and least compassionate elements of society. They don't represent the majority of Canadian views; but they do represent the worst elements of Canadian views. The rednecks, the racists, the homophobes, the social darwinists who would be only too happy to see poor people starving on the streets. These are the people who would feel at home in Harper's Conservatives. And they rode in on a horse called Accountability and they've failed miserably at that, too. Then you add in a bunch of people like you who would ignore the worst elements of the Conservatives because you lack the imagination to see better. And then add in the segment that doesn't pay attention and poof. You have a "majority government". Happy to see poor people starving on the streets? Well let's keep handing our forced millions to unions so the union bosses can get rich and fight Conservatives while people starve in the streets. Your post reveals a high level of ignorance, which in all reality, doesn't surprise me. I ran with socialists who really din't give a damn abut the poor. They used the poor to exploit votes. That's all. Look at the tolerant tweets left by a tolerant, progressive Liberal candidate in Calgary. I guess you would rather pigeon hole and work on deception than honesty. You are no better than those you hate. Grow up! Edited August 19, 2015 by socialist Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Charles Anthony Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Guys, Stop re-copying the entirety of a fellow member's post in quotation. The next time it happens in this thread, the post will be taken down without warning. Ch. A. Quote We do not have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. << Où sont mes amis ? Ils sont ici, ils sont ici... >>
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 ...Even as the current knuckle dragging aresholes are going tougher on drugs, south of the border, they are realizing that prohibition doesn't work and legalizing and/or decriminalizing marijuana. Yes, because nothing is more of a Canadian embarrassment than the decriminalization of dope...south of the border. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Yes, because nothing is more of a Canadian embarrassment than the decriminalization of dope...south of the border. drawing a comparative parallel to a like experience... and the results therein, isn't the presumed embarrassment... it's following the policy path in the first place. If you could wrench yourself away from your "wash/rinse/repeat" obsession, you might recognize this. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) This embarrassment thing is hard to figure out. Canadians want...no... insist on "U.S. style" content....."U.S. style" political media...."U.S. style" leadership debates....even "U.S. style" dope decriminalization...but "U.S. style" campaign attack ads are a big problem ? Slinging "U.S. style" references in many topics by the usual suspects is OK, but candidates shouldn't use "U.S/ style" campaign tactics ? Edited August 19, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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