Free Speech vs Hate Speech

[-1=e^ipi]

Is what he himself claims really relevant? The first words out of every bigot's mouth are "I'm not a bigot, but..."

Some bigots identify as MRAs. But this guy doesn't even identify as MRA. So it doesn't make sense to call him an MRA.

I confess that I fail to grasp the distinction. All of these MRA/anti-feminist/Red Pill/MGTOW/manosphere types have all blended into a single entity that I can't really distinguish from each other.

These are different groups that overlap, but there are distinct subgroups within these groups. Christina Hoff-Sommers and Anita Sarkeesian both identify as feminists, but they are very different from one another. Or let's take another group, muslims. Some muslims are ISIS, but other muslims are liberal such as Raif Badawi.

[-1=e^ipi]

Anyway, for those advocating against free speech in this thread, I ask you the following:

Should Cenk Uygur be banned from Canada as well? Cenk Uygur has said that:

- Women should face no jail time for raping males, even if the women is a pedophile raping underage males. The males probably want and enjoy the sex anyway.

- He told Karen Straughan to make him a sandwich.

Edited August 13, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

[Evening Star]

Anyway, for those advocating against free speech in this thread,

This is what? One person?

[Black Dog]

Anyway, for those advocating against free speech in this thread, I ask you the following:

Should Cenk Uygur be banned from Canada as well? Cenk Uygur has said that:

- Women should face no jail time for raping males, even if the women is a pedophile raping underage males. The males probably want and enjoy the sex anyway.

- He told Karen Straughan to make him a sandwich.

Do you have a cite? I've never heard of this guy.

[-1=e^ipi]

You haven't heard of the Young Turks? They are like the largest online news show and some have dubbed them the left's version of fox news.

Cenk Uygur saying that women shouldn't get jail time for raping teenage boys:

Cenk Uygur telling Karen to make him a sandwich:

[Black Dog]

You haven't heard of the Young Turks? They are like the largest online news show and some have dubbed them the left's version of fox news.

Nope, never heard of them.

[cybercoma]

Is what he himself claims really relevant? The first words out of every bigot's mouth are "I'm not a bigot, but..."

I confess that I fail to grasp the distinction. All of these MRA/anti-feminist/Red Pill/MGTOW/manosphere types have all blended into a single entity that I can't really distinguish from each other.

-k

It's all an extension of the Angry White Male demographic.

[cybercoma]

Nope, never heard of them.

I've never heard of them either. They can't be that "huge."

[Moonlight Graham]

It's all an extension of the Angry White Male demographic.

Honestly, the language/arguments you frequently use makes me think you're bigoted towards white males.

Btw, this Roosh guy isn't even white, he's Armenian and Iranian.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Moonlight Graham

[cybercoma]

Just the ignorant, racist, and bigoted ones.

[kimmy]

Honestly, the language/arguments you frequently use makes me think you're bigoted towards white males.

Btw, this Roosh guy isn't even white, he's Armenian and Iranian.

Why? Does it contain microaggressions?

-k

[Black Dog]

Free Speech martyr directs minions to dox women.

[cybercoma]

Free Speech martyr directs minions to dox women.

Advancing men's rights. These are the real issues affecting men. Edited August 14, 2015 by cybercoma

[The_Squid]

Advancing men's rights. These are the real issues affecting men.

Free Speech martyr directs minions to dox women.

Harassment is a very good reason not to allow him to come to Canada. Perhaps he could be charged with criminal harassment...

What do his supporters on this forum think now?

[Hal 9000]

I dont support most of his ideas, but lets fact it, there are just as many (likely more) radical feminists spewing crap just as negative and hateful that never get banned from Canada. I believe in free speech, and support his right to his opinions just as I support WCR's or Cyber's rights.

[Black Dog]

I dont support most of his ideas, but lets fact it, there are just as many (likely more) radical feminists spewing crap just as negative and hateful that never get banned from Canada. I believe in free speech, and support his right to his opinions just as I support WCR's or Cyber's rights.

Ok: do you have any examples?

[Evening Star]

Yeah, this could be seen as harassment and might be a reason to argue against letting him into the country: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-49726.html

If he's doing this, I'd definitely consider it harassment that should be criminal:

In a post on his forum, he asked that followers collect information such as addresses, phone numbers, names of relatives, and send it to him.

[Evening Star]

You haven't heard of the Young Turks? They are like the largest online news show and some have dubbed them the left's version of fox news.

Cenk Uygur saying that women shouldn't get jail time for raping teenage boys:

Cenk Uygur telling Karen to make him a sandwich:

I watched about half of the first clip. What I saw Uygur say was: i) male and female teachers should be treated the same way in these situations ii) the age of consent should be 16 (which it is in Canada) iii) teachers who have sexual relationships with 16- or 17-year-old students should be fired and they have issues but they should not get jail time. Unless he says something more inflammatory in the rest of the clip, this is nowhere near as outrageous as saying that all rape on private property should be legalized (and I was totally willing to defend Roosh V's freedom of speech in that case).

Edit: I watched the whole clip. I don't see the issue. In fact, both hosts were clear that they oppose a double standard where male teachers are usually regarded and treated more harshly than female teachers in cases like this (i.e. they are advocating for men's rights!).

I didn't watch the second clip but telling someone to make you a sandwich has never been considered hate speech by even the most draconian interpreter.

I was familiar with TYT, btw, but they are surely nowhere near as big as Fox News. Maybe MSNBC is closer to what you're getting at?

Edited August 15, 2015 by Evening Star

[-1=e^ipi]

Ok: do you have any examples?

How about Bahar Mustafa, her usage of the hashtag #killallwhitemen, and her exclusionary racist/sexist policies at Goldsmith college against men, whites or cisgendered people?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bahar-mustafa-goldsmiths-university-diversity-officer-keeps-her-job-after-vote-of-no-confidence-petition-fails-10277562.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11633305/University-union-officer-who-wrote-kill-all-white-men-tweet-will-remain-in-post.html

[-1=e^ipi]

I watched about half of the first clip. What I saw Uygur say was: i) male and female teachers should be treated the same way in these situations ii) the age of consent should be 16 (which it is in Canada) iii) teachers who have sexual relationships with 16- or 17-year-old students should be fired and they have issues but they should not get jail time.

1. Sex without consent is rape. In most places in North America a 17 year old cannot legally consent. Therefore, having sex with a 17 year old is rape. Not only that but it is also pedophilia. Cenk Uygur thinks this teacher shouldn't get any jail time for raping 3 of her students. If that isn't 'rape culture' then what is?

2. This isn't the first time Cenk has expressed such absurd views. He clearly has a double standard with respect to rape/pedophilia depending on the sex of the offender. Here is him trying to argue that female pedophilia is 'emotional' where as male pedophilia is 'physical and sexual' so the two should be treated differently:

I didn't watch the second clip but telling someone to make you a sandwich has never been considered hate speech by even the most draconian interpreter.

No but it is funny and ironic.

[Evening Star]

1. Sex without consent is rape. In most places in North America a 17 year old cannot legally consent. Therefore, having sex with a 17 year old is rape. Not only that but it is also pedophilia. Cenk Uygur thinks this teacher shouldn't get any jail time for raping 3 of her students. If that isn't 'rape culture' then what is?

He is arguing for setting the age of consent at 16. It is 16 in Canada (since it was raised from 14 about a decade ago) and in 31 US states (going by Wikipedia). What are your grounds for saying that "n most places in North America a 17 year old cannot legally consent"?

Edit: Also, I've always understood 'pedophilia' to refer to a sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Is there any respected source that would classify someone as a pedophile because they were attracted to a 17-year-old? Statutory rape and pedophilia are not the same thing, as far as I know. This seems to back me up: "A pedophile is a person who has a sustained sexual orientation toward children, generally aged 13 or younger, Blanchard says"

Edited August 15, 2015 by Evening Star

[Evening Star]

What exactly is your argument re Cenk Uygur? Are you arguing that he should be barred from entering the country? Or just that his views are as outrageous as Roosh V's and therefore the one person on this thread who advocated for barring him on hate speech grounds should also be advocating to bar Uygur (keeping in mind that Roosh V got free entry into Canada)? If so, what is the purpose of posting a video where he tells someone to make him a sandwich? I'm a little reluctant to keep watching your linked videos at this point.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Evening Star

[-1=e^ipi]

Or just that his views are as outrageous as Roosh V's and therefore the one person on this thread who advocated for barring him on hate speech grounds should also be advocating to bar Uygur (keeping in mind that Roosh V got free entry into Canada)?

This.

If so, what is the purpose of posting a video where he tells someone to make him a sandwich?

To show that he's a misogynist that thinks women should make him sandwiches.

[Evening Star]

To show that he's a misogynist that thinks women should make him sandwiches.

Assuming you're right (and I'm sceptical based on what I know of him), what is the relevance of this? There are plenty of misogynists who hold views like this without being charged for hate speech. What does this have to do with free speech vs hate speech?

Edited August 15, 2015 by Evening Star

[-1=e^ipi]

Assuming you're right

I don't believe he classifies as a misogynist. I'm just saying he could be interpreted to be a misogynist based on some things he has said.