Greece? Add about 4% to Harper's Numbers

August1991 · July 6, 2015

Except NDP governments balance their books and Canada has nearly 100% income tax compliance, both unlike Greece. So, sure, if Trudeau and Harper are morons, they'll make that comparison.

In Ontario under Bob Rae, the NDP did not balance the books. And Ontario, as they say, is vote rich.

Edited July 6, 2015 by August1991

August1991 · July 6, 2015

I can imagine the campaign now. Every time Mulcair speaks about one of this policies (economic or political), both Harper and Trudeau can respond with "yeah, just like Greece!".

Exactly, except it won't be the campaign: it will be the debate. And Trudeau Jnr will look foolish when he turns to Mulcair and says this. Harper, on the other hand, will look like the guy with a steady hand on the wheel.

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Let's see how this Greek play unfolds but I suspect that both Harper's people and Mulcair's people are preparing debate lines now.

Pensions and health care, because they concern death, are third-rail issues. Years ago, the progressive Left bought these issues to get elected. Well, now the Left owns them.

Edited July 6, 2015 by August1991

Derek 2.0 · July 6, 2015

In Ontario under Bob Rae, the NDP did not balance the books. And Ontario, as they say, is vote rich.

I don't seem the remember balanced budgets in BC through the 90s under the NDP, but I do remember, during our last election, Adrian Dix promised to repeal BC's balanced budget legislation.......

Evening Star · July 7, 2015

This is more or less how I see Rae's premiership, although I realise that I'm in the minority:

http://theagenda.tvo.org/blog/agenda-blogs/bob-rae-was-right-his-time

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/2012/04/15/bob_raes_failed_premiership_is_a_myth.html

Balanced budget legislation is foolish. There are times when it is appropriate for governments to run deficits, just as there are times when it is appropriate for individuals to take out mortgages or student loans.

Derek 2.0 · July 7, 2015

Well that didn't take long:

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The linkage between socialist Greece and the socialist NDP wasn't that far off........ but why would they bring it on themselves?

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

Yes. Let's make Greece an election issue. :rolleyes:

Excuse me while I go dig up those stupid memes from the NDP website about Harper too. Congratulations on being the first to post one of those dumb digital compaign ploys here. Copying and pasting party propaganda is lot easier than actually having an intelligent discussion for yourself.

Edited July 7, 2015 by cybercoma

Evening Star · July 7, 2015

Well that didn't take long:

The linkage between socialist Greece and the socialist NDP wasn't that far off........ but why would they bring it on themselves?

You know that Tsirpas was elected recently and isn't responsible for any of the policies that might have led to the crisis, yes?

Derek 2.0 · July 7, 2015

Yes. Let's make Greece an election issue.

Excuse me while I go dig up those stupid memes from the NDP website about Harper too. Congratulations on being the first to post one of those dumb digital compaign ploys here. Copying and pasting party propaganda is lot easier than actually having an intelligent discussion for yourself.

Would you prefer Ashton in her own words? I think a prominent member of the NDP voicing her support for a country defaulting on billions of dollars of loans, and the ensuing chaos to follow, should be discussed.

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

You know that Tsirpas was elected recently and isn't responsible for any of the policies that might have led to the crisis, yes?

No. He doesn't know that. He also doesn't recognize that the repayment terms that conservatives tell him to support exacerbated the situation in Greece (and Spain, and Ireland, and Italy, and all over South America, and a number of African countries).

Evening Star · July 7, 2015

Would you prefer Ashton in her own words? I think a prominent member of the NDP voicing her support for a country defaulting on billions of dollars of loans, and the ensuing chaos to follow, should be discussed.

I can see reasons to agree with her: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/opinion/paul-krugman-greece-over-the-brink.html

Derek 2.0 · July 7, 2015

You know that Tsirpas was elected recently and isn't responsible for any of the policies that might have led to the crisis, yes?

Sure, but he's done his best to wreck the economic fortunes of his country, in part, due to his socialist beliefs........beliefs supported by the Federal NDP (in its own words).....

Now didn't Mulcair, several years back, suggest Canada should have been one of the countries to loan Greece money......money that if we had of loaned, we'd never see paid back?

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

Would you prefer Ashton in her own words? I think a prominent member of the NDP voicing her support for a country defaulting on billions of dollars of loans, and the ensuing chaos to follow, should be discussed.

It only needs to be discussed if you think democracy shouldn't exist in Greece and that their people shouldn't have had a say in what happens to their country. You characterization of a "no" vote is obtusely simplistic and ignores the complexity of the situation and world monetary funds.

But yeah, "dem socialists! rabble! rabble!" Just keep posting them Conservative memes.

Derek 2.0 · July 7, 2015

I can see reasons to agree with her: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/opinion/paul-krugman-greece-over-the-brink.html

Good, as the NDP will be able to explain those reasons in the weeks ahead, likewise their support of those reasons, to Canadians, as the Tories and Liberals will be certain to bring it up.......

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

I'll just post the words of this article here again, since you brought it up.

Germany emerged from the second world war still owing debt that originated with the first world war: the reparations imposed on the country following the Versailles peace conference in 1919. ... Germany's creditors included Greece and Spain, Pakistan and Egypt, as well as the US, UK and France. ... Germany was given large cancellation of 50% of its debt. The deal covered all debts, including those owed by the private sector and even individuals. It also covered all creditors. ... West Germany experienced an "economic miracle", with the debt problem resolved and years of economic growth. The medicine doled out to heavily indebted countries over the last 30 years could not be more different.

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

But hey, I guess the proven benefit of debt relief is only for some nations and not others. Pretty ironic that Germany is now leading the charge to hold Greece's feet to the fire today.

Derek 2.0 · July 7, 2015

It only needs to be discussed if you think democracy shouldn't exist in Greece and that their people shouldn't have had a say in what happens to their country. You characterization of a "no" vote is obtusely simplistic and ignores the complexity of the situation and world monetary funds.

But yeah, "dem socialists! rabble! rabble!" Just keep posting them Conservative memes.

Hey, I hope the NDP are able to make a more convincing case as to why they support the Greek Government, as it defaults in the weeks ahead, followed by the ensuing turmoil as Greeks start to starve and riot in the dark, and why their support for such dogma would equal better results for Canada.........interesting times indeed.

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

Hey, I hope the NDP are able to make a more convincing case as to why they support the Greek Government

Is that an official NDP position or was that the statement of someone whose mother is Greek, speaks Greek fluently, and was married recently in her mother's hometown in Greece? Tell me again how she's not qualified to have a position on this.

Edited July 7, 2015 by cybercoma

Derek 2.0 · July 7, 2015

But hey, I guess the proven benefit of debt relief is only for some nations and not others. Pretty ironic that Germany is now leading the charge to hold Greece's feet to the fire today.

Maybe, once the next Greek civil war is resolved, the NDP can then make a case for international debt relief of a decimated Greece, decimated by the policies that the NDP currently support.........

Great mangers of the economy the NDP, "we don't worry about debt, since we have no intentions of ever paying it back"........

bush_cheney2004 · July 7, 2015

Makes sense to me....communist birds of the same feather flock together.

Derek 2.0 · July 7, 2015

Is that an official NDP position or was that the statement of someone whose mother is Greek, speaks Greek fluently, and was married recently in her mother's hometown in Greece? Tell me again how she's not qualified to have a position on this.

I never said she can't have the position.......by all means, sing it from the rooftops.......

As to the NDP position, I'm certain that we'll be graced with Mulcair's past support of loaning Greece money.....

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

decimated by the policies that the NDP currently support.........

In other words, you have absolutely no idea why Greece is in trouble. Perfect. Go peddle your CPC propaganda somewhere else. This is nothing more than partisan garbage with no substance. Get back to me when Canada has a 50% tax compliance rate and the IMF has saddled us with repayment terms that are impossible to meet because they won't allow us to grow our economy.

cybercoma · July 7, 2015

The ignorance would be laughable if you didn't eat up that propaganda BS like it was an Easter Buffet.

Derek 2.0 · July 7, 2015

In other words, you have absolutely no idea why Greece is in trouble. Perfect. Go peddle your CPC propaganda somewhere else. This is nothing more than partisan garbage with no substance.

Is Ashton's own remarks CPC propaganda? Why would I go elsewhere? Member August started this thread on how Grexit could effect the Federal election, in turn, the NDP has come out, not at the urging of the CPC, in support of a Greek Government that just gave the EU a giant middle finger.......that in turn will bring about even greater economic strife, if not another civil war or take over of the elected Government by the army, well the NDP support it, in addition to bringing (Greek) socialism to Canada..........

I now think, thanks to the Ashton's own words, August's thread is a very valid topic.....

bush_cheney2004 · July 7, 2015

...I now think, thanks to the Ashton's own words, August's thread is a very valid topic.....

It sure is now.....

eyeball · July 7, 2015

Make our social programs strong as the Swedes and a third of the country will be on the dole.

Make an individuals access to our natural resources, like timber for a big example, strong like it is in Sweden and all that would change.

Hand over everything to corporations and, well...

Do you think Canadians get their sense of entitlement from watching how governments pander to corporations or do the filthy rich feel the same way from watching politicians coddle us?