Truth and Reconciliation - Moving Forward

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2015

Since this is a vast topic, the existing thread seems to have a body of thought that says that the claims of residential school abuse are false, or overstated. Given that our PM has formally apologized that governments need to work to fix this, what is/should Canadians do collectively and individually to act ?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-remains-silent-on-truth-and-reconciliation-recommendations/article24785944/

Perry Bellegarde, the National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations, said Mr. Harper’s 2008 formal apology for residential schools was a “shining moment” for Canada, but without action the words are meaningless.

The Prime Minister did release a written statement after he attended the closing ceremony at Rideau Hall that featured a prayer circle, videos of testimony from former students, statements from church leaders and speeches by commissioners and Governor-General David Johnston.

“While this is an important milestone in getting our country past the days of Indian residential schools, work is still needed to help heal the pain and restore trust from that wrong,” the Prime Minister’s statement said.

"... the government is already taking many concrete steps to improve the lives of aboriginals, including increased job training and providing “vast amounts of money” for education and health.

Argus · June 14, 2015

Let's remember there's already been a settlement, an apology and compensation paid out, rightly or wrongly, to thousands of people. What, then, was the point of this 'truth and reconciliation commission'?

They made a pile of recommendations, most of which appear to be entirely unrelated to what happened, and provided another means for bleeding heart liberals to wallow in their assumed guilt by association with their ancestors (regardless of whether their ancestors were even here at the time). And it provided another forum for natives to bitch and whine about how hard done-by they are, and how it's all our fault.

Moving forward, nothing is going to improve with regard to the lives of natives until their existing governance structure is changed. The problem with that is you can damn sure count on the present governance structure, ie the Chiefs, to fight that tooth and nail. For however bad things are on the reserves, they're pretty darn good if you're a chief.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Argus

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2015

Let's remember there's already been a settlement, an apology and compensation paid out, rightly or wrongly, to thousands of people. What, then, was the point of this 'truth and reconciliation commission'?

They made a pile of recommendations, most of which appear to be entirely unrelated to what happened, and provided another means for bleeding heart liberals to wallow in their assumed guilt by association with their ancestors (regardless of whether their ancestors were even here at the time). And it provided another forum for natives to bitch and whine about how hard done-by they are, and how it's all our fault.

This is about legitimacy, clearly, which is the other thread.

Moving forward, nothing is going to improve with regard to the lives of natives until their existing governance structure is changed. The problem with that is you can damn sure count on the present governance structure, ie the Chiefs, to fight that tooth and nail. For however bad things are on the reserves, they're pretty darn good if you're a chief.

Ok, governance. Not one of the recommendations:

http://aptn.ca/news/2015/06/02/read-94-recommendations/

But how would you move forward with that?

Smallc · June 14, 2015

So what do we do? Also, what Arhus said can't be ignored. When have we done enough? When does reconciliation involve more than people paying money and judging the past through the lense of today?

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2015

When does reconciliation involve more than people paying money and judging the past through the lense of today?

I think the answer might be when we come up with approach that starts to see improvement.

Smallc · June 14, 2015

I think the answer might be when we come up with approach that starts to see improvement.

What has worked with other groups of people who were mistreated?

Edited June 14, 2015 by Smallc

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2015

What has worked with other groups of people who were mistreated?

Good question. Some things that might answer that:

-Economic self-sufficiency

-Control over their destiny

-A healthy culture to deal with problems

Smallc · June 14, 2015

Good question. Some things that might answer that:

-Economic self-sufficiency

-Control over their destiny

-A healthy culture to deal with problems

They have one of those already (2). How is 1 to be achieved in Lac Brochet?

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2015

How is 1 to be achieved in Lac Brochet?

Sorry... I jumped ahead. I didn't mean to imply that Canada shouldn't offer financial support to those communities, but I can see that I did that.

Smallc · June 14, 2015

Sorry... I jumped ahead. I didn't mean to imply that Canada shouldn't offer financial support to those communities, but I can see that I did that.

I think Canada should offer support - the same as to any other remote community. I live in Manitoba, in what is known as a northern affairs community. Our councils only have partial authority, and they are controlled by a government department...much like reserves actually. In our communities, the compensation for mayor and council is set by regulations from the department. The mayor makes $237 + $50 for at least one additional meeting a month.The same should be done federally. That would be a huge start.

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2015

I think Canada should offer support - the same as to any other remote community. I live in Manitoba, in what is known as a northern affairs community. Our councils only have partial authority, and they are controlled by a government department...much like reserves actually. In our communities, the compensation for mayor and council is set by regulations from the department. The mayor makes $237 + $50 for at least one additional meeting a month.The same should be done federally. That would be a huge start.

I appreciate the detail here. I do think wholesale change and restructuring can happen, but it needs such a weight of political support that you need to offer benefits to both sides. You can see that, right ?

I read a lot of posts on here that lay down edicts that are non-starters. Your post is not one of those.

drummindiver · June 14, 2015

I think Canada should offer support - the same as to any other remote community. I live in Manitoba, in what is known as a northern affairs community. Our councils only have partial authority, and they are controlled by a government department...much like reserves actually. In our communities, the compensation for mayor and council is set by regulations from the department. The mayor makes $237 + $50 for at least one additional meeting a month.The same should be done federally. That would be a huge start.

In Ontario we have sunshine lists for ppl who make a lot of money for overtime. Huge public outcry for anyone charging overtime. There could be an issue with abuse and accountability with this type of system,.

drummindiver · June 14, 2015

Good question. Some things that might answer that:

-Economic self-sufficiency

-Control over their destiny

-A healthy culture to deal with problems

Control over their destiny? As Canadians, they have as much say in their destiny as other Canadians. It's called voting.

WestCoastRunner · June 14, 2015

Good question. Some things that might answer that:

-Economic self-sufficiency

-Control over their destiny

-A healthy culture to deal with problems

I heard an interview on cbc radio today and the woman being interviewed (can't recall her name) suggested that some Canadian parks, rivers, bridges, islands etc could be renamed to honour the legacy of FN's people. For example, here in BC, The Queen Charlotte Islands were renamed Haida Gwaii in honour of the Haida people. The renaming was part of a reconciliation process between BC and the Haida people.

Discussions are underway in Calgary to rename the Langevin Bridge to instead a name honouring FN people.

"Langevin, a father of Confederation, was insistent that Natives be forced onto boarding schools to ensure they join civilization. If you leave them in the family, they may know how to read and write, but they will remain savages," he said in 1883."

Not only is a bridge named after him, but other landmarks as well, including a school.

Perhaps as part of the reconciliation process, we can adopt some of these suggestions as was done in BC.

Canada_First · June 14, 2015

I heard an interview on cbc radio today and the woman being interviewed (can't recall her name) suggested that some Canadian parks, rivers, bridges, islands etc could be renamed to honour the legacy of FN's people. For example, here in BC, The Queen Charlotte Islands were renamed Haida Gwaii in honour of the Haida people. The renaming was part of a reconciliation process between BC and the Haida people.

Discussions are underway in Calgary to rename the Langevin Bridge to instead a name honouring FN people.

"Langevin, a father of Confederation, was insistent that Natives be forced onto boarding schools to ensure they join civilization. If you leave them in the family, they may know how to read and write, but they will remain savages," he said in 1883."

Not only is a bridge named after him, but other landmarks as well, including a school.

Perhaps as part of the reconciliation process, we can adopt some of these suggestions as was done in BC.

This is the same stuff they did in post aparthied South Africa. Renamed everything from Afrikans names or English names to tribal names. I think this adds to confusion. I don't think it's necessary to rename everything to a native name in order to not repeat the past. So we'll now have to censor ourselves when naming so as to not offend the FN people? So you'd want everything English/French renamed?

Michael Hardner · June 15, 2015

I don't think it's necessary to rename everything to a native name in order to not repeat the past.

Neither did the poster you replied to, but since you have dismissed one suggestion maybe you can offer one ? There are 94 (I think) recommendations. Any ideas there ?

Canada_First · June 15, 2015

Neither did the poster you replied to, but since you have dismissed one suggestion maybe you can offer one ? There are 94 (I think) recommendations. Any ideas there ?

I'm going to read into it further but on the surface I am against anything that will treat another group of people in Canada differently or better based on race. The world has seen what that can do in South Africa and Rhodesia and we don't need that to happen again, no matter how well intentioned.

Hal 9000 · June 15, 2015

We're clearly in a catch-22 situation with the FN's people. I have seen first hand what the reserves are all about, there is every possible addiction, abuse and dependancy rampant. There is also serious illness and illness brought on directly from addiction. Throwing more money at the reserves doesn't work - never has worked and never will. They don't want white people interfering either.

I think the best option is to bring these people in to the bigger towns or cities. I believe that they can keep their culture intact while living in a town that can actually address their issues - in fact, as Smallc said, they would probably be better able to keep their culture with assistance from us.

But, too many people buy into the idea that they have to be living in squalor in the middle of butt fk nowhere to have a culture and for us as a society to interfere with that is equivalent to genocide. I think it's genocide to allow it to continue in the 21st century. The fact is; left to their own devices, the FN people wouldn't survive more than a couple generations on the remote reserves.

We can throw blame until the cows come home, but that'll never solve the issue.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Hal 9000

On Guard for Thee · June 15, 2015

We're clearly in a catch-22 situation with the FN's people. I have seen first hand what the reserves are all about, there is every possible addiction, abuse and dependancy rampant. There is also serious illness and illness brought on directly from addiction. Throwing more money at the reserves doesn't work - never has worked and never will. They don't want white people interfering either.

I think the best option is to bring these people in to the bigger towns or cities. I believe that they can keep their culture intact while living in a town that can actually address their issues - in fact, as Smallc said, they would probably be better able to keep their culture with assistance from us.

But, too many people buy into the idea that they have to be living in squalor in the middle of butt fk nowhere to have a culture and for us as a society to interfere with that is equivalent to genocide. I think it's genocide to allow it to continue in the 21st century. The fact is; left to their own devices, the FN people wouldn't survive more than a couple generations on the remote reserves.

We can throw blame until the cows come home, but that'll never solve the issue.

the FN people wouldn't survive more than a couple generations on the remote reserves.

OMG, I cant think of what would be the most appropriate descriptor to apply to that statement, without getting some sort of warning point. So I ill just leave it at this, how may generations do you think they survived i remote areas before they got thrown onto reserves...sheeesh.

Smallc · June 15, 2015

OMG, I cant think of what would be the most appropriate descriptor to apply to that statement, without getting some sort of warning point. So I ill just leave it at this, how may generations do you think they survived i remote areas before they got thrown onto reserves...sheeesh.

This statement clearly displays your ignorance of the reality on remote reserves.

On Guard for Thee · June 15, 2015

This statement clearly displays your ignorance of the reality on remote reserves.

I am quite aware of the reality on various reserves. For someone to say the FN people couldn't survive more than a couple of generatios is quite ludicrous. Psst...the were here long before us.

Canada_First · June 15, 2015

I am quite aware of the reality on various reserves. For someone to say the FN people couldn't survive more than a couple of generatios is quite ludicrous. Psst...the were here long before us.

This isn't the stone age anymore though. They aren't out warring with other tribes killing each other, hunting for food, wearing skins as clothing. Things have changed now. I doubt many FN people can even know how to pull a bow anymore. Let alone have the hunting ability needed in order to bring down big game. Enough for them to feed a whole tribe. The Inuit, yes they still can but the others, not so much.

Smallc · June 15, 2015

I am quite aware of the reality on various reserves. For someone to say the FN people couldn't survive more than a couple of generatios is quite ludicrous. Psst...the were here long before us.

It's quite clear you don't know the reality. Those skills have long been lost to most aboriginal people...to most people. Even in remote places we're become too comfortable and reliant on the modern world. Not many people could survive unaided. At current, aboriginal people in remote areas are not surviving well.

On Guard for Thee · June 15, 2015

This isn't the stone age anymore though. They aren't out warring with other tribes killing each other, hunting for food, wearing skins as clothing. Things have changed now. I doubt many FN people can even know how to pull a bow anymore. Let alone have the hunting ability needed in order to bring down big game. Enough for them to feed a whole tribe. The Inuit, yes they still can but the others, not so much.

Oh really, well lets think about that. Part of the taxes I pay everyday go to put fuel into an F 18 so we can drop bombs in Iraq. Would you know how to hunt for food...I have friends that do. I bought a quarter of venison from one last year. I have a pair of slippers on made of deer hide. Reality seems to fly in the face of a lot of your claims.

Hal 9000 · June 15, 2015

Oh really, well lets think about that. Part of the taxes I pay everyday go to put fuel into an F 18 so we can drop bombs in Iraq. Would you know how to hunt for food...I have friends that do. I bought a quarter of venison from one last year. I have a pair of slippers on made of deer hide. Reality seems to fly in the face of a lot of your claims.

WoW! That's random!