Bonam Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 So what are you saying, natives are children and should be treated as such? Or are you saying natives are inherently inferior and everyone else has to play with a handicap? What point exactly are you trying to make? Different people have different abilities, different backgrounds, chance upon different opportunities. You can't equalize everything. The only role of government in all this should be to ensure that everyone is equal before the law. I don't want some bureaucracy evaluating people and handing boxes to some while confiscating them from others. A progressive income tax structure is a sufficient tool to level the playing field and ensure that those with more means contribute a greater proportion to society. Quote
Smallc Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Maybe, but yet another 'what is racism' thread is OT. I'm asking about the way forward... if we don't want special treatment then how does it help and how would it happen? It would help by ending the segregation that currently exists. Aboriginal people aren't being served by the current arrangement. Quote
Bonam Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 It would help by ending the segregation that currently exists. Aboriginal people aren't being served by the current arrangement. A permanent victim class is required for the social justice warriors to champion, otherwise they lose their purpose in life. Hence, continued victimhood of historically disenfranchised groups must be perpetuated by any means necessary. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 A permanent victim class is required for the social justice warriors to champion, otherwise they lose their purpose in life. Hence, continued victimhood of historically disenfranchised groups must be perpetuated by any means necessary. So best just to stick your head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen. Quote
Smallc Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 A permanent victim class is required for the social justice warriors to champion, otherwise they lose their purpose in life. It almost seems that way, doesn't it? We can do better. We can do that by allowing other people to do better for themselves. Aboriginal people should be able to chart their own course as individuals, with the same rights and freedoms as the rest of us. Quote
Smallc Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 So best just to stick your head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen. Who said anything about that? Besides, this thread is about the way forward. You're too busy living in the past. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Who said anything about that? Besides, this thread is about the way forward. You're too busy living in the past. Perhaps look at the comment I was responding to before you get so trigger happy. Quote
Smallc Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Perhaps look at the comment I was responding to before you get so trigger happy. I read the comment. That comment had to do with future. Your's didn't. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) I read the comment. That comment had to do with future. Your's didn't. The comment was exactly the opposite. Maybe re read it.All it does is try to criticize those who support social justice. Edited June 16, 2015 by On Guard for Thee Quote
Smallc Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 The comment was exactly the opposite. Maybe re read it.All it does is try to criticize those who support social justice. Yes, because the poster is critical of that particular approach to moving forward. No one said anything about pretending things didn't happen...except you. Talk about moving forward. Quote
Bonam Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 The way forward is for all Canadians to live under one set of laws and have the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities. Any other viewpoint is inherently indefensible based on any self-consistent moral or ethical foundation. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Yes, because the poster is critical of that particular approach to moving forward. No one said anything about pretending things didn't happen...except you. Talk about moving forward. The focus was on (social justice warriors). There is the derailment. Quote
Smallc Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 The focus was on (social justice warriors). There is the derailment. No This is the focus: The way forward is for all Canadians to live under one set of laws and have the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities. Any other viewpoint is inherently indefensible based on any self-consistent moral or ethical foundation. This is what we need to do. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 No This is the focus: This is what we need to do. Cool. Then get rid of the Indian Act. Quote
Smallc Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Cool. Then get rid of the Indian Act. It's not the simple, and you know it. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 It's not the simple, and you know it. No its not simple, that's for sure. Europeans made made some big mistakes as they began to take over as the government in this fair land. And like chickens they have come home to roost. Quote
Smallc Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 No its not simple, that's for sure. Europeans made made some big mistakes as they began to take over as the government in this fair land. And like chickens they have come home to roost. There is only one ultimate way forward though - to do away with all of it. We're not there yet though. 11 governments can't yet come to agree. Quote
Bryan Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 There is only one ultimate way forward though - to do away with all of it. We're not there yet though. 11 governments can't yet come to agree. Unfortunately you're right on both counts. The only way forward is to scrap the Indian Act entirely. Until we do, it's just going to be more of the same. And, it likely never will be scrapped, because every time that gets brought up, you just get more of the same. The people who claim to be the ones who care the most, work their hardest to make sure there is never a resolution. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Posted June 16, 2015 It would help by ending the segregation that currently exists. So, the Federal Government announces that it's terminating all benefits for first nations, and to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. I don't know the legality of it, but the political reaction at least would be cataclysmic. What's the next step, in your mind ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Posted June 16, 2015 And, it likely never will be scrapped, because every time that gets brought up, you just get more of the same. The people who claim to be the ones who care the most, work their hardest to make sure there is never a resolution. So, then, a political third way is needed. It's not surprising that an extreme change wouldn't fly politically. There must be other ways. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
drummindiver Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 I think there are 94 on the page there. ..and a quick peruse shows that the majority are lip service and more entitlements. Quote
drummindiver Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Why are you asking ? Are you going to help with the situation ? Because they need them ? Why the glib remark? Are YOU going to help? What are your suggestions? I see you slagging ppl for not having the answers, but aside from eternally throwing money to ease Liberal guilt, what are the options? I think we all agree there is no political will to abolish the Indian Act. And because they need them? Why do they need them? They have the same (eff that, they have more) opportunity than all other ppls in Canada, so why are they bogged down with addiction, low paying jobs (if any) etc? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Posted June 16, 2015 ..and a quick peruse shows that the majority are lip service and more entitlements. Ok, let's talk about the minority ones that you agree with, or other real suggestions you may have. Why the glib remark? Are YOU going to help? What are your suggestions? I see you slagging ppl for not having the answers, but aside from eternally throwing money to ease Liberal guilt, what are the options? I think we all agree there is no political will to abolish the Indian Act. I'd like to see First Nations people try a new configuration of self-determination and democracy designed to meet the needs of their people and the rest of Canada as well. I'd like to create an online community with representatives from all of these groups to push forward ideas, monitor progress and so on. If we can get founding principles from all sides then that would be a great start. But it will take time and money. why are they bogged down with addiction, low paying jobs (if any) etc? Good question. We already know a lot. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
drummindiver Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Ok, let's talk about the minority ones that you agree with, or other real suggestions you may have. I'd like to see First Nations people try a new configuration of self-determination and democracy designed to meet the needs of their people and the rest of Canada as well. I'd like to create an online community with representatives from all of these groups to push forward ideas, monitor progress and so on. If we can get founding principles from all sides then that would be a great start. But it will take time and money. Good question. We already know a lot. Self determination and democracy? These are Canadian citizens. They already enjoy democracy. There are 630 recognized First Nations in Canada. Do they all get self determination, or is it blanket self determination, which, of course, is then not self determination at all. I am not trying to be flippant. I don't believe in distinct societies, and I don't believe the answer to the First Nations problem is giving them more rights/money/entitlements than other Canadians. What do we know? "First NationsThe rate of alcohol use is lower among First Nations communities (66%) compared to the general population (79%). However, alcohol misuse is a growing concern among First Nations communities who do use alcohol. Alcohol-related deaths among First Nations people are six times higher compared to the general population [4]. First Nations men are more likely (69%) to drink alcohol than women (62%). However, the proportion of heavy drinkers among First Nations people is more than double compared to the general population (16% versus 6%), with First Nations men being more than twice as likely to be heavy drinkers compared to women (21% versus 10%) [5]." To offer a blanket issue (poverty, unemployment etc) the rate of alcohol abuse should be higher for First Nations (if your argument is that First Nations have a higher degree of poverty, unemployment etc) than for RoC...which seems to be the going argument here. This statistic disproves that notion. Quote
drummindiver Posted June 16, 2015 Report Posted June 16, 2015 Ok, let's talk about the minority ones that you agree with, or other real suggestions you may have. Child Welfare -3. We call upon all levels of government to fully implement Jordan’s Principle. Education 17. We call upon all levels of governments to enable residential school survivors and their families to reclaim names changed by the residential school system by waiving administrative costs for a period of five years for the name change process and the revision of official identity documents, such as birth certificates, passports, driver’s licenses, health cards, status cards, and social insurance numbers. Justice 25. We call upon the federal government to establish a written policy that reaffirms the independence of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to investigate crimes in which the government has its own interest as a potential or real party in civil litigation. Settlement Agreement Parties and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. 48. We call upon the church parties to the Settlement Agreement, and all other faith groups and interfaith social justice groups in Canada who have not already done so, to formally adopt and comply with the principles, norms and standards of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples as a framework for reconciliation. This would include, but not be limited to, the following commitments: i. Ensuring that their institutions, policies, programs, and practices comply with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. ii. Respecting Indigenous peoples’ right to self-determination in spiritual matters, including the right to practice, develop, and teach their own spiritual and religious traditions, customs, and ceremonies, consistent with Article 12:1 of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Honestly, the more I read the angrier I get. This "report" is advocating 90 wastes of tax payer dollars which will do nothing but pad a few more FN's pockets...probably the chiefs. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.