On Guard for Thee Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 WoW! That's random! A response to a previous post. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Posted June 15, 2015 I'm going to read into it further but on the surface I am against anything that will treat another group of people in Canada differently or better based on race. The world has seen what that can do in South Africa and Rhodesia and we don't need that to happen again, no matter how well intentioned. This is another non-starter from you. Treating somebody 'differently' based on your criteria includes enslaving them or buying them a car. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
PIK Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 We have done enough and it is time for them to do more. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Michael Hardner Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Posted June 15, 2015 We have done enough and it is time for them to do more. This is what I described as an 'edict'. Fine that it's your point of view and nobody can say that it's not, but how does it happen ? What are the steps forward ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Argus Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 Ok, governance. Not one of the recommendations: http://aptn.ca/news/2015/06/02/read-94-recommendations/ But how would you move forward with that? Not sure why you posted the above since the only recommendation mentioned is yet another useless inquiry, this time into murdered native women, which is another dumb idea which will solve nothing. Almost everything bad on the reserves other than the cultural problems you get when nobody has jobs starts with poor local governance. When you have a government whose interests are diametrically opposed to the interests of the population you have no way to move forward other than removing that government structure. Fire all the chiefs and have provincially supervised elections for reserve councils, and open up all their decision making and monetary spending to public view, just as you have in every other government in Canada. And bring in the same conflict of interest rules we have for other governments, while you're at it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) This statement clearly displays your ignorance of the reality on remote reserves. For the most part we shouldn't even HAVE remote reserves. The only reason for a population centre to exist in real life is when there's something there to support a lot of people, be it farms, mines, factories or fishing. This was ignored when a lot of the reserves were established since it was simply assumed that all they'd need is for us to ship them some beef and blankets to keep them happy. Nobody, in those days, ever gave a second of thought to natives needing jobs! Those reserves which are not economically sustainable should be closed down and their people moved somewhere they can find productive work. Edited June 15, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Smallc Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 I think they should be normal communities. Then, if there's nothing to do, they die organically, just like every other community...as it should be. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Posted June 15, 2015 Not sure why you posted the above since the only recommendation mentioned is yet another useless inquiry, this time into murdered native women, which is another dumb idea which will solve nothing. I think there are 94 on the page there. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Canada_First Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 This is another non-starter from you. Treating somebody 'differently' based on your criteria includes enslaving them or buying them a car. Michael. No one's rights should be treaded upon. They should be treated equally. That goes for everyone. No special treatment. No special social programs. Everyone treated exactly the same. If we are striving for a society based on equality then we must have it this way. One cannot call our society equal if one group get preferential treatment over another can it? Quote
PIK Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 To much white guilt when it comes to the lefties in this country. Best idea I have heard ,is the government says we will give you 10-15- 25 yrs or what ever to get you act together . And then after that you are on your own like the rest of us. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Canada_First Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 To much white guilt when it comes to the lefties in this country. Best idea I have heard ,is the government says we will give you 10-15- 25 yrs or what ever to get you act together . And then after that you are on your own like the rest of us. Totally agree. We need to treat the FN people just like everyone else. No special treatment at all. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Posted June 15, 2015 Everyone treated exactly the same. We don't do that - we don't 'treat people exactly the same'. We have incentives to retrain, to invest, to locate in different areas, to have children... Why now do you want to treat people the same when their people are so beaten down ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
drummindiver Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 We don't do that - we don't 'treat people exactly the same'. We have incentives to retrain, to invest, to locate in different areas, to have children... Why now do you want to treat people the same when their people are so beaten down ? Whom are they beaten down by? Why should FNs people have benefits that I don't, when I'm helping pay for them? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Posted June 15, 2015 Whom are they beaten down by? Why are you asking ? Are you going to help with the situation ? Why should FNs people have benefits that I don't, when I'm helping pay for them? Because they need them ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Canada_First Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 Why are you asking ? Are you going to help with the situation ? Because they need them ? Then you don't want an equal society with everyone is an equal partner. Yo do not believe in equality based on your post. You think some groups of people in our society deem worthy for special treatment. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Posted June 15, 2015 Then you don't want an equal society with everyone is an equal partner. Yo do not believe in equality based on your post. You think some groups of people in our society deem worthy for special treatment. I guess you're right - I don't believe in treating people equally. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Canada_First Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 I guess you're right - I don't believe in treating people equally. Then why is the civil rights movement and social justice movements constantly saying that they are if that's not really what they want? You see? It's frustrating when people don't say what they mean. We've been saying for years that these groups say they want equality but they really want special rights. While the same groups constantly have been saying "no, no we just want to be equal". At least you can admit it. Says something for your integrity Michael...so to that I say bravo! Moving on. Why do think that every group except white males deserve special treatment? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Posted June 15, 2015 We've been saying for years that these groups say they want equality but they really want special rights. It's really just a semantics question. Why do think that every group except white males deserve special treatment? I don't think that. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Canada_First Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 It's really just a semantics question. I don't think that. Oh. Just some groups or just FN people in particular? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Posted June 15, 2015 Oh. Just some groups or just FN people in particular? You should take this to the 'legitimacy' thread, I think. This is about moving forward. There were some suggestions from Argus and others on the previous page I'd like to hear more about. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
cybercoma Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 I guess you're right - I don't believe in treating people equally. Quote
Smallc Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 That kind of paternalism is very racist. It assumes that some groups are incapable of doing better on their own. Quote
Smallc Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 You should take this to the 'legitimacy' thread, I think. I would think not. Disagreeing on how to move forward is going to be part of the discussion. Some will think that no steps need to be taken. Some will disagree on the types of steps. It's all legitimate. Sorting out whether people should be treated as equal or not is probably important. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Posted June 15, 2015 Maybe, but yet another 'what is racism' thread is OT. I'm asking about the way forward... if we don't want special treatment then how does it help and how would it happen? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Accountability Now Posted June 15, 2015 Report Posted June 15, 2015 Interesting graphic. On first glance I trust the graphic is intended to make us believe that Equity is better than Equality which I believe is true in situations where people can't help their own situation. In this graphic I have to ask who is providing the boxes for these people? The government? If so, why is it up to them to help in this situation when that short person could provide his own boxes? Obviously this a philosophical thing but it does relate to moving forward with the FN. If Equity is truly the desired result then we shouldn't be just handing them boxes rather we should be creating a system that allows them to build their own boxes where needed. Of course this all assumes that the FN are the short people and the ROC is the tall person. My question is why does that assumption have to be? Why can't FN be view as having the same abilities abd capabilities as the ROC? Why aren't we all tall and not provided the same opportunities to succeed. Quote
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