drummindiver Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Says the guy currently following me around the forum, trolling me and adding nothing to the threads. Look, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but I'm sure you'll get over it. lol... Following you around the forum? Delusions of grandeur much? Sorry palsy, didn't realize you controlled which forums people were allowed to read and post on. ..and, btw, you didn't hurt my feelings. Just wanted to correct your illogical in fallacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Bill C-51 slid through the Senate, overshadowed by the Senate expense scandal. But it seems it's already been in use for a while ...? How can that be? http://m.guelphmercury.com/opinion-story/5668820-is-bill-c51-a-threat- A young Winnipeg man is in jail, apparently because of his sympathy for the terrorist group Islamic State. Aaron Driver, who uses the alias Harun Abdurahman, has not been charged with a criminal offence, but he could be locked up for 12 months if he refuses to agree to certain conditions. The RCMP says they fear he may contribute "directly or indirectly, to the activity of a terrorist group for the purpose of enhancing the ability of a terrorist group to facilitate or carry out a terrorist activity." It's unclear what kind of threat, if any, he poses to Canadian society, and it would be premature to make any judgment until the facts are known, if they ever are. So far, however, it appears he has done nothing that would have been recognized as a crime in the past. Instead, he's run afoul of the federal government's new anti-terrorism legislation (Bill C-51), which makes it an offence to advocate or promote terrorist offences. As the Canadian Bar Association has said, it's not obvious what that means, which itself is troubling, since laws against certain activities are inherently unfair if they aren't clear. Many Canadians supported the terrorist actions of anti-apartheid forces in South Africa, the Irish Republican Army, the Jewish insurgents who killed British soldiers in Palestine in the 1940s and so on. The difference between then and now is the homeland was not believed to be at risk from these terrorist supporters. The events of 9/11 changed everything. Driver, a Christian who converted to Islam, told the Toronto Star in an interview last February he cheered when Parliament Hill was attacked and a soldier killed by an armed gunman last year. According to the Star, he believed the attacks on the military and the government were an honourable retaliation for the killing of innocent civilians by allied warplanes in the Mideast. W!T!F!!! He said ... and he goes to jail ... no charges, no lawyer, no court ... No justice. And that's BEFORE Bill C-51 was passed!? W!T!F! So, it says if he doesn't agree to certain conditions. I don't know what they may be, but something like "don't effin shoot up parliament", or "don't run ppl down with your car", or maybe, "don't plan to blow trains off the tracks" or any other number of imagined scenarios. Oh wait, imagined scenarios..... Edited June 10, 2015 by drummindiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebound Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) For those who support the intrusive provisions of c-51 because...." they apply only to terrorists, and would never be used against normal protesters..."... here is an example as to how the application of laws morph into something totally unintended by the original drafters.... .. A law which was intended to prevent companies-under-investigation from shredding documents.... is now being used against individuals who delete their browser history... http://m.thenation.com/article/208593-you-can-be-prosecuted-clearing-your-browser-history Also, it not so much that deleting your browser history may be illegal.... its that the penalty is 20 years! .... Edited June 10, 2015 by Icebound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) For those who support the intrusive provisions of c-51 because...." they apply only to terrorists, and would never be used against normal protesters..."... here is an example as to how the application of laws morph into something totally unintended by the original drafters.... .. A law which was intended to prevent companies-under-investigation from shredding documents.... is now being used against individuals who delete their browser history... http://m.thenation.com/article/208593-you-can-be-prosecuted-clearing-your-browser-history Also, it not so much that deleting your browser history may be illegal.... its that the penalty is 20 years! .... Perhaps you just don't get it. When it comes to crime, punishment and government surveillance, the US is not just another country - they are on a different planet. Depending on the State, their incarceration rates or 3, 4 and even 5 times more than Canada. If you're looking for Big Brother, his latest alias is Obama. Edited June 11, 2015 by Keepitsimple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) So, it says if he doesn't agree to certain conditions. I don't know what they may be, but something like "don't effin shoot up parliament", or "don't run ppl down with your car", or maybe, "don't plan to blow trains off the tracks" or any other number of imagined scenarios. Oh wait, imagined scenarios..... Nah ... They probably don't want him spilling the beans about their torture methods.Pretty soon they'll have him admitting to all kinds of terrorist 'thoughts'. . Edited June 11, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Nah ... They probably don't want him spilling the beans about their torture methods. Pretty soon they'll have him admitting to all kinds of terrorist 'thoughts'. . Yes, because terrorists are tortured in Canada daily. That is sarcasm. Just to be clear. Sorry, Jacee, I can't get that upset about some fella cheering for ppl killing Canadian citizens as they do their job. And btw, what has C51 got to do with this anyways? CSIS and the RCMP did their job. They monitored, they found this fella all over the place advocating and applauding some pretty heinous shite, and now want him to agree not to blow ppl up. Good work, CSIS and RCMP. "Court documents show justice officials have now applied for a peace bond against Driver under section 810 of the Criminal Code. This would allow them to place certain restrictions on his activities and freedoms in the community for a set period of time." So, if he doesn't agree to not hurt others, he MAY go to jail for 12 months. Again, agreeing to not hurt people should be an easy thing to agree to, shouldn't it? If injury or damage feared 810. (1) An information may be laid before a justice by or on behalf of any person who fears on reasonable grounds that another person (a) will cause personal injury to him or her or to his or her spouse or common-law partner or child or will damage his or her property; or (b) will commit an offence under section 162.1. Marginal note:Duty of justice(2) A justice who receives an information under subsection (1) shall cause the parties to appear before him or before a summary conviction court having jurisdiction in the same territorial division. Marginal note:Adjudication(3) If the justice or summary conviction court before which the parties appear is satisfied by the evidence adduced that the person on whose behalf the information was laid has reasonable grounds for the fear, the justice or court may order that the defendant enter into a recognizance, with or without sureties, to keep the peace and be of good behaviour for a period of not more than 12 months. Marginal note:Refusal to enter into recognizance(3.01) The justice or summary conviction court may commit the defendant to prison for a term of not more than 12 months if the defendant fails or refuses to enter into the recognizance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Ah so they have to go to court. That's good. After C51 they won't. Granted, saying the deaths of two Canadian soldiers was justified is pretty disgusting. I watched Nathan Cirillo funeral procession, his little son ... it was heartbreaking. But is it a crime to say that? Does it justify up to 12 months in jail? I'm not defending the guy. I'm defending due process. If we don't have that, then we don't have the freedom our soldiers fought for. . Edited June 11, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Ah so they have to go to court. That's good. After C51 they won't. Granted, saying the deaths of two Canadian soldiers was justified is pretty disgusting. I watched Nathan Cirillo funeral procession, his little son ... it was heartbreaking. But is it a crime to say that? Does it justify up to 12 months in jail? I'm not defending the guy. I'm defending due process. If we don't have that, then we don't have the freedom our soldiers fought for. . He will only get 12 months if he refuses the conditions of the peace bond. Really, if he can't consent to not harm ppl, jail is probably the best place for him to ensure others safety. I think most of the soldiers that fought for our freedoms would agree with what is happening to Mr.Driver. Everyone has the right to be safe, and maybe jail is the safest place for Mr. Driver (and I am not saying that facetiously.) http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/Winnipeg-IS-supporter-is-not-facing-charges-but-will-face-a-peace-bond-to-restrict-his-activity-306298971.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Funny thing simple, Obama is the jewel of the canadian left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 If you're looking for Big Brother, his latest alias is Obama.Wait until his alias is Trudeau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Funny thing simple, Obama is the jewel of the canadian left.You must mean the Canadian middle - Obama is clearly the most right-wing American president the US has seen since Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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