On Guard for Thee Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 Classic Harper derangement syndrome. Its Harpers bill Shady in case you missed that part. Quote
jacee Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 It means I don't give a damn what happens to terrorists or those who sympathize with them. If it was only targeting legitimate terrorists, that would be fine. But Harper's using it to target environmental and Indigenous protesters ... whom he has arbitrarily decided are 'terrorists'. . Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 .... If a former Conservative PM, a large faction of Canadian businesses, international tech firms, the majority of Canadians and now the OSCE oppose C-51, isn't it possible that the bill could use some serious tweaking? Since when does sovereignty require "tweaking" ? The OSCE opposes seal hunting too...so what ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
PIK Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 I am so sick of people screaming about their rights. The charter is going to kill this country. And the bill goes after terrorists, and it does not matter what type, enviro or native or white or black, but any idiot that wants to play that game. Or evenm international tech firms. Everybody is covered. So what if harper does not win, we just give up the country to who ever has a problem with us. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
jacee Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 "give up the country" ? Just a little over the top, PIK. :/ Quote
PIK Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 No it is not. Unfortunately we have to many people in this country that have no clue to what is going on around them. To a lot, it is the CIA that is behind everything. C-51 does nothing to the ordinary citizen and you know it. This is being used to attack harper. At least harper put our security up front, not just a passing remark like the others. There is nothing to fear about this bill. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
jacee Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) No it is not. Unfortunately we have to many people in this country that have no clue to what is going on around them. To a lot, it is the CIA that is behind everything. C-51 does nothing to the ordinary citizen and you know it. This is being used to attack harper. At least harper put our security up front, not just a passing remark like the others. There is nothing to fear about this bill.Oh yes there is.Harper is solely in charge of CSIS' secret detention and interrogation of anybody he thinks 'may' commit an offense. People can be detained without charges - no access to a lawyer or anyone else - for seven days ... but who's going to know! Interrogation includes tortures ... just not physical or sexual assault. What did Harper think these people 'may' do? Well they 'may' protest a pipeline! Or they may just be Harper's political enemies. There's no way of knowing who's being tortured or why ... because CSIS is not accountable to the public, only to Harper. Then there's the privacy issue, collecting everybody's data. Companies are concerned about liability for customers' data and about corporate espionage, and upgrading systems to block government snooping. Again, with no public accountability there's no telling who's using your data nor for what purpose. Bill C-51 is 'giving up the country'. We are supposed to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, detention and interrogation. Not any more. We are supposed to be able to supply data with the understanding that it would be used only for the purpose for which it was collected. Not any more. . Edited May 26, 2015 by jacee Quote
Keepitsimple Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 Bill C-51 is 'giving up the country'. We are supposed to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, detention and interrogation. Not any more. We are supposed to be able to supply data with the understanding that it would be used only for the purpose for which it was collected. Not any more. . Nice rant - but Canadians are not buying it - in spite of all the breathless scare-mongering ( like yours) that's been going on non-stop for months. Even that small minority of political junkies who have been closely following C51 are somewhat split - with 55% opposed and presumably, 45% "not opposed". The new survey, conducted by the Angus Reid Institute, is a follow-up to a February poll that found 82 per cent favoured the bill. That proportion has now fallen, but not dramatically: 72 per cent still said that, “all things considered,” they support the legislation. Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/security-fears-still-outweigh-concerns-about-lost-rights/article24608809/ Quote Back to Basics
jacee Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 That's kind of old news, stoll trending down. And Justin ' s kinda screwed for supporting it, because his voters' don't ... thus the rise in the polls of the NDP. . Quote
Keepitsimple Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 That's kind of old news, stoll trending down. Sorry Jacee - it's brand new news, hot off the press. Quote Back to Basics
jacee Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 Sorry Jacee - it's brand new news, hot off the press. Oh you're right. The numbers haven't moved much since it passed. A majority of those following the legislation closely are against it, but there are far more people who are not really paying attention, and they overwhelmingly support it. . Quote
Argus Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 Harper is solely in charge of CSIS' secret detention and interrogation of anybody he thinks 'may' commit an offense. This is one of the nuttiest things I've ever read here, and this place is chock a block full of nutty statements. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jacee Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) This is one of the nuttiest things I've ever read here, and this place is chock a block full of nutty statements.Prove me wrong.. Edited May 26, 2015 by jacee Quote
Argus Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 Prove me wrong. . I don't have to prove there is no Sasquatch. You have to prove it exists. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jacee Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 I don't have to prove there is no Sasquatch. You have to prove it exists.CSIS needs no warrants and takes direction from and reports only to "the Minister".A year later there might be a summary of some of CSIS work, but they're very uncooperative in providing information. . Quote
Shady Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 No it is not. Unfortunately we have to many people in this country that have no clue to what is going on around them. To a lot, it is the CIA that is behind everything. C-51 does nothing to the ordinary citizen and you know it. This is being used to attack harper. At least harper put our security up front, not just a passing remark like the others. There is nothing to fear about this bill. It's essier and more comfortable for people to believe their threats are internal than external. They feel like they have more control that way. Quote
Shady Posted May 26, 2015 Report Posted May 26, 2015 Since when does sovereignty require "tweaking" ? The OSCE opposes seal hunting too...so what ? Now they're just making stuff up, like the majority of Canadians claim. Utter nonsense. Quote
Argus Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 CSIS needs no warrants and takes direction from and reports only to "the Minister". A year later there might be a summary of some of CSIS work, but they're very uncooperative in providing information. . CSIS is made up of public servants. It is not Harper's secret police force. It isn't going to arrest people for disloyalty, not even people like you. It doesn't have time for minor idiots. It works on terrorism and espionage. And spare me the nonsense which suggests anyone who protests against pipelines is going to be declared a terrorist and arrested. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 Now they're just making stuff up, like the majority of Canadians claim. Utter nonsense. The majority of Canadians oppose C 51. But it doesnt matter, Harper has a majority and a bunch of puppets at his control. It will arrive at the SCC and once again a Harper bill get smacked down. We will just have to pay for the wasted time for an idiot who ignores the charter because he desperately wants votes. But it will come back to bite him this time around. Just look at the polls. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) The majority of Canadians oppose C 51. Not true - not even close. Don't start making things up again. The latest poll was posted a few posts back. 72% of Canadians support the legislation "all things considered". Even the small minority of political junkies who have been closely following C51 are somewhat split with only 55% opposing. Edited May 27, 2015 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
On Guard for Thee Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 Not true - not even close. Don't start making things up again. The latest poll was posted a few posts back. 72% of Canadians support the legislation "all things considered". Even the small minority of political junkies who have been closely following C51 are somewhat split with only 55% opposing. You can pick the poll that suits you of course. The ones I have looked at show the support dropping like a stone as people become aware of the problems with the bill. But as I have already stated, Harper can ram any BS he wants through the house with his majority. But luckily we have the courts to apply the charter ad save us. Quote
Shady Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 You can pick the poll that suits you of course. The ones I have looked at show the support dropping like a stone as people become aware of the problems with the bill. But as I have already stated, Harper can ram any BS he wants through the house with his majority. But luckily we have the courts to apply the charter ad save us.Which ones have you looked at? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 Which ones have you looked at? Oh for instance Forum Research which has 56% against the bill. Quote
Shady Posted May 27, 2015 Report Posted May 27, 2015 Oh for instance Forum Research which has 56% against the bill.What's forum research? Quote
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