Women and Jews on a plane

[Wilber]

and there are men's only clubs...

A commercial airline is not a men only club, or for that matter, a women only club.

[Smallc]

I don't care if they were gay, muslim, transgender or a family with young children. If I can't have a conversation with my own party, we will certainly ask to be moved. Not sure what you are getting at? But please, spell it out.

This is about discrimination, not you being loud at dinner.

[Michael Hardner]

This is about discrimination, not you being loud at dinner.

Well, what are you criteria for allowing discrimination or not ? Clearly you have some too, let's hear.

[The_Squid]

A commercial airline is not a men only club, or for that matter, a women only club.

That was my point... the fact that there are women's only or men's only [insert whatever here] is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[msj]

Well, what are you criteria for allowing discrimination or not ? Clearly you have some too, let's hear.

If people are being too loud it is not because of gender or race or sexual orientation. It is because they choose to be loud.

As such, it is reasonable to ask them to quiet down.

Race, gender, sexual orientation - well, you can ask people to change it, and some, like Caitlyn Jenner, may even change their gender (appearances and/or otherwise), but most people tend to agree that it is insulting and discriminatory to ask a black man to move his seat because he is black.

Or for a woman to move her seat because she is a woman. Or a gay person. Etc....

Of course, in the mind of some religious people such discrimination is defended because, God and because, religious freedom (to be a bigot).

[The_Squid]

If people are being too loud it is not because of gender or race or sexual orientation. It is because they choose to be loud.

As such, it is reasonable to ask them to quiet down.

Race, gender, sexual orientation - well, you can ask people to change it, and some, like Caitlyn Jenner, may even change their gender (appearances and/or otherwise), but most people tend to agree that it is insulting and discriminatory to ask a black man to move his seat because he is black.

Or for a woman to move her seat because she is a woman. Or a gay person. Etc....

Of course, in the mind of some religious people such discrimination is defended because, God and because, religious freedom (to be a bigot).

Well said....

[Argus]

del

Edited July 16, 2015 by Argus

[Guest]

Well said....

Agreed. Is that the post that got msj suspended?

[msj]

I'm not suspended. I was suspended a couple years back and have not changed the message.

[Guest]

Silly me...

[Smallc]

Well, what are you criteria for allowing discrimination or not ? Clearly you have some too, let's hear.

You can do whatever you want in your own little cult (short of rape and murder). Other than that, no.

[dre]

I agree that it's reasonable if others aren't inconvenienced. What a pain for the airline though.

If its a pain for the airline then people ARE being inconvenienced. This is an area where airlines should stay away from completely. If they make these kinds of concerns part of the way they do business the scope will probably increase. Maybe next time its a woman who doesnt want to sit next to a Jew. Maybe someone else doesnt want to sit next to a homosexual, ect ect.

Why should the airline have to train staff to deal with the myriad of special seating requests made by all kinds of people with wierd beliefs or biases? This would cost the airline and passengers extra money and slow down the boarding process.

[Bryan]

and there are men's only clubs...

Those are private clubs, not open to the public, the hotels I was referring to are. The hotel has reserved a section for women who do not want to be placed near men.

[Michael Hardner]

You can do whatever you want in your own little cult (short of rape and murder). Other than that, no.

Sorry - you said that you'd allow women to not sit beside men... what ?

[Michael Hardner]

If its a pain for the airline then people ARE being inconvenienced.

Just arguing the meaning of 'inconvenienced' here. If they choose to do this to get money then it's their choice.

Maybe next time its a woman who doesnt want to sit next to a Jew. Maybe someone else doesnt want to sit next to a homosexual, ect ect.

The airlines can see the difference here, even if you can't.

[Wilber]

Those are private clubs, not open to the public, the hotels I was referring to are. The hotel has reserved a section for women who do not want to be placed near men.

So if you have a four storey hotel with one floor reserved for women, men only have access to 75% of the rooms but women can access them all.

Same kind of thing goes for aircraft if airlines start making gender specific seats.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Wilber

[Bryan]

So if you have a four storey hotel with one floor reserved for women, men only have access to 75% of the rooms but women can access them all.

Yup.

[dre]

Just arguing the meaning of 'inconvenienced' here. If they choose to do this to get money then it's their choice.

The airlines can see the difference here, even if you can't.

What evidence do you have that the airlines can see the difference? These passengers were unruly and caused delays in some cases, and for airlines to have an officially policy of accomodating the mysoginistic beliefs of a bunch of people that often treat the women in their communities like breeder cattle, is going to cause some very bad PR. And trying to juggle the seating plan around based on this would simply cause outrage among the other passengers, which is exactly what it did.

The seat numbers on the ticket... sit down or get off.

[Michael Hardner]

What evidence do you have that the airlines can see the difference?

I'm going by the assumption that there's a business reason for this, ie. more people would appreciate this service than be offended by it, hence a net plus for business. But if not, then ... it still is their choice.

These passengers were unruly ...

I've already said that that behavior isn't conscionable.

[dre]

I'm going by the assumption that there's a business reason for this, ie. more people would appreciate this service than be offended by it, hence a net plus for business. But if not, then ... it still is their choice.

You said that the "airlines can see the difference" between reassigning seats due to mysogony cloaked in religion and other objections passengers might make to who they are seated next to.

What is your evidence of this?

Im not arguing that it isnt their "choice". Im arguing why arranging seating plans based on these type of concerns would be an extremely stupid idea and why its very unlikely to happen. And pointing out that it would cause a lot of outrage and needlessly make the airline look bad.

The poll for this thread is a pretty good indication of that. 3 out of 16 people think accomodation is warranted.

Edited July 17, 2015 by dre

[Michael Hardner]

What is your evidence of this?

That they don't offer to do that for anyone

Wait - I thought that this was already offered?

Seems like there is a demand...

[dre]

That they don't offer to do that for anyone

Wait - I thought that this was already offered?

Seems like there is a demand...

They dont offer it for anyone as a service. Read the three cases mentioned... in one the Stewardess asked other passengers if they would be willing to move... the other passengers were none too happy about it. The wierdos were forced to sit in their assigned seats, and then caused disturbances during the flight by jumping up out of their seats every time the fasten seatbelt lamp went off.

[Michael Hardner]

Ok, well the individual case has zero interest to me though you keep bringing it up. In case you ever travel to the big city just beware- there are a lot of rude people there.

I thought that it was a service- so ignore my response about the airlines knowing the difference- that's nonsense.

[Argus]

So if you have a four storey hotel with one floor reserved for women, men only have access to 75% of the rooms but women can access them all.

Same kind of thing goes for aircraft if airlines start making gender specific seats.

What hotels only have floors for women anyway?

[Smallc]

Sorry - you said that you'd allow women to not sit beside men... what ?

I did what?