Big Guy Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) As has been the previous custom, we will probably be seeing a few debates between the leaders of the Parties during the federal campaign: http://www.news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/rex-murphy-mays-presence-at-the-debates-offers-protection-from-trudeaus-real-opponent-its-not-harper Are these debates a worthwhile exercise in selecting who you will be voting for? Should Elizabeth May be allowed to participate in these debates? Will you be watching any of these debates? Edited April 13, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Bryan Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 They're usually a cluster-F that doesn't even come close to resembling a debate. Too many people involved just makes it a circus. Even three is pushing it if you want a real debate. I think anyone who is serious about including more voices needs to first come up with a way to make that work without everything breaking down. I'm not saying it can't be done, only that it doesn't work within the formats that we've seen so far. Also, I think Rex is right. Trudeau wants May in there for one reason only: to protect him from Mulcair. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 Who will protect Harper from Mulcair. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Who will protect Harper from Mulcair. Another deep-thinking response On Guard? No need to "protect" him. That will be the interesting debate - two very intelligent guys going at it toe-to-toe. Of course Mulcair will have to spend a portion of his time belittling Trudeau - perhaps a large portion because he's third in the polls. As the Liberals used to do with a divided Right, Harper hopes to keep the Left at each other's throats, ultimately splitting their vote. I really do hope that May is not allowed to participate - she's a one-trick pony and a blabbermouth to boot......and the dynamics of a three way debate between Harper, Mulcair and Trudeau could prove to be the most compelling we've ever seen. I'll certainly be watching. Edited April 13, 2015 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
On Guard for Thee Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 Another deep-thinking response On Guard? No need to "protect" him. That will be the interesting debate - two very intelligent guys going at it toe-to-toe. Of course Mulcair will have to spend a portion of his time belittling Trudeau - perhaps a large portion because he's third in the polls. As the Liberals used to do with a divided Right, Harper hopes to keep the Left at each other's throats, ultimately splitting their vote. I really do hope that May is not allowed to participate - she's a one-trick pony and a blabbermouth to boot......and the dynamics of a three way debate between Harper, Mulcair and Trudeau could prove to be the most compelling we've ever seen. I'll certainly be watching. Except Mulcair can think on his feet. Harper has to stick to his talking points. If you have tuned into QP any time when there have been controversial issues on the go you would see that. The gloves will be off much more during the debates and there is lots of ammo which both Mulcair and Trudeau can choose from. I too will be watching. Quote
Queenmandy85 Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 I do not believe the debates provide any indication of who would make the best Prime Minister. The fast quip and brilliant put down does not indicate competence in running a Government. Yes, it is entertaining, but are we electing a clown or a government leader. Quote A Conservative stands for God, King and Country
Ash74 Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 I do not believe the debates provide any indication of who would make the best Prime Minister. The fast quip and brilliant put down does not indicate competence in running a Government. Yes, it is entertaining, but are we electing a clown or a government leader. Have you seen these 4? They are all clowns. People of talent and ability do not run for office. We are just stuck with the valedictorians of summer school. Quote “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”― Winston S. Churchill There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. –Robert Heinlein
ToadBrother Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 Mulcair will likely win (for the highly subjective question of who won a leaders' debate), but it won't do him any good. This is shaping up to be a two horse race, and unless there is a monumental stumble by the Tories or Liberals, I think the NDP will have a hard time hanging on to half the seats they currently have. Quote
Remiel Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 May should be in. My bet is that Conservatives fear her participation because plenty of Canadian, even those who do not support her party, trust her on parliamentary ethics. You know, that thing Stephen Harper completely lacks, and which could play a big part in the upcoming election. Quote
PIK Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 May was given her chance before and did nothing but embarrass her and her party. and my green friends said the same. She was nothing but rude and arrogant. I hope they set it up that it is not everyone VS harper. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
cybercoma Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 Why is this even a question still? Of course Elizabeth May should be there. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 May's participation - or not - brings up the point as to who should be permitted to participate. There should be some sort of threshold based on the last election - just like there is to be able to receive Parliamentary funding.....but regardless - I think any party that runs candidates nationally - like the Greens, should be able to make opening remarks alongside the traditional parties on national TV but there should be a reasonable threshold for them to participate in the debate. Quote Back to Basics
eyeball Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 Let me guess - a threshold based on the same FPTP results that effectively silences millions of Canadians. And why just a party that runs nationally, why shouldn't any individual why decides to run not have the same opportunity? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
poochy Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 Except Mulcair can think on his feet. Harper has to stick to his talking points. If you have tuned into QP any time when there have been controversial issues on the go you would see that. The gloves will be off much more during the debates and there is lots of ammo which both Mulcair and Trudeau can choose from. I too will be watching. If Mulcair was leading the liberals i would probably be voting for them, but the NDP is too left, and Trudeau is an empty suit. Quote
poochy Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 May should be in. My bet is that Conservatives fear her participation because plenty of Canadian, even those who do not support her party, trust her on parliamentary ethics. You know, that thing Stephen Harper completely lacks, and which could play a big part in the upcoming election. No she shouldn't, if she is than all of the other fringe parties should be. She really has nothing to say, anyone could spew all kinds of unrealistic nonsense about the environment but eventually the reality of people needing real jobs to feed their families kicks in and the pollyanna vision of our green future goes by the way side. Quote
poochy Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 Let me guess - a threshold based on the same FPTP results that effectively silences millions of Canadians. And why just a party that runs nationally, why shouldn't any individual why decides to run not have the same opportunity? You are suggesting that anyone who runs federally should be invited to the debates? They don't even need to lead a party, let alone one of significance.? Quote
eyeball Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 No, I'm questioning Keepitsimple's implication that only political parties can run in a national election or participate in a national election debates - something you also appear to be implying. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
cybercoma Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 May's participation - or not - brings up the point as to who should be permitted to participate. There should be some sort of threshold based on the last election - just like there is to be able to receive Parliamentary funding.....but regardless - I think any party that runs candidates nationally - like the Greens, should be able to make opening remarks alongside the traditional parties on national TV but there should be a reasonable threshold for them to participate in the debate. Here's a threshold. You run a candidate in greater than 80% of the ridings in Canada, your leader gets into the debate. I don't give a crap if you're a white nationalist party filled with hate propaganda or avowed communists who want to overthrow every institution in this country. You've got the membership to run people in damn near every riding, then you get your platform heard. Quote
cybercoma Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 Let me guess - a threshold based on the same FPTP results that effectively silences millions of Canadians. And why just a party that runs nationally, why shouldn't any individual why decides to run not have the same opportunity? Because there needs to be practical consideration. What if there's hundreds of people who decide to run? How do you give time to hundreds of people for debate? Besides, we don't elect individuals as the head of government. We don't elect the head of government at all. We have a party leaders debate so that they can debate the party platforms, so people know what potential MPs will stand for. Quote
eyeball Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 Nonetheless we do have Independents who run and there is nothing that says Parliament can't choose one to head the government. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
cybercoma Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 Nonetheless we do have Independents who run and there is nothing that says Parliament can't choose one to head the government. You're right however exceedingly unlikely. Should there ever be an individual in contention for such a role, then I imagine they would make room in the debate for him/her. Quote
eyeball Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 He or she would have to be some kind of outstanding individual alright... We can always dare to hope. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
poochy Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 No, I'm questioning Keepitsimple's implication that only political parties can run in a national election or participate in a national election debates - something you also appear to be implying. Well there has to be some sort of bar, otherwise the debates could get so muddled with who knows how many party leaders (of parties that have no real chance of winning anything) that they would be pointless. Maybe they are pointless already, idk, but i think this year could be interesting, i suspect the contrast between Mulcair and Trudeau will be startling, with Harper somewhere in between. Quote
cybercoma Posted April 13, 2015 Report Posted April 13, 2015 I suspect Mulcair is going to eat Trudeau's lunch in the debates. It's going to be embarrassing for Justin. Quote
overthere Posted April 14, 2015 Report Posted April 14, 2015 Why is this even a question still? Of course Elizabeth May should be there. She is the leader of a party with 2 seats. If she is in , then Party Leaders Mario Beaulieu (Bloc, 2 seats) and Jean Francois Fortin( 2 seats, Forces et Democratie) must also have a voice. And if we are allowing marginal voices a chance to shout at each other, how can we exclude any of the 8 Independents? The challenge for Mulcair will be to simultaneously attack and belittle his opposition while at the same time appearing to be a statesman. Tightrope! Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
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