Why are so few willing to discuss the science?

[Boges]

Steel looses about 50% of its strength at 1100F, jet fuel burns at up to 1500F. So take a huge slice out of a building with a fuel laden airliner and then dump the burning fuel vertically through the structure including the elevator shafts, and just wait a while. Voila, pancaked building.

Tower 7 though, TOWER 7!!!!!!!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

Tower 7 though, TOWER 7!!!!!!!!!

Wasn't Dick Cheney seen running out the back door with some empty gas cans and thermite ?

[On Guard for Thee]

Tower 7 though, TOWER 7!!!!!!!!!

Well we all know by now that 7 was taken down by a death ray from Arcturus. Little buggers wanted in on the fun I guess.

[Michael Hardner]

Nothing can explain the molten steel found and witnessed within the confines of those three buildings because there was no fuel that should/could have been there that could do what was done to said steel.

Wait... you're going to go with 'witnessed' molten steel ? How do you identify the temperature ?

So much for science...

[Topaz]

Right after 9/11, a journalist wrote online that it was an inside job but the most important thing about it was.....no one would believe that certain government officials were involved, people would never think that way.....and that's why they CAN do it and get away with it and they hope that enough people would see their message because they felt it was going to be taken down by the feds.....it was, I couldn't find it the next day. Government don't like science because it proves them wrong, just ask Harper.

[Je suis Omar]

1. Steel looses about 50% of its strength at 1100F,

First, a source. And your point is?

2. Jet fuel burns at up to 1500F.

That doesn't describe the situation in 1 & 2. Try to be more scientific.

3.so take a huge slice out of a building with a fuel laden airliner

"Fuel laden" - how much fuel? The towers were designed for just such an event. How many times do you have to be told.

4. and then dump the burning fuel vertically through the structure including the elevator shafts, and just wait a while.

Yeah, like a whole 56 minutes and down #1 comes, removing the massive central core columns as if they didn't exist. A gravity collapse that ejects multi ton steel components hundreds of feet laterally. Gravity works vertically.

Some 220 acres of concrete, reinforced with rebar, 4 to 5 inches thick, bolted to the steel pans is pulverized into fine dust by all that reserve gravity power that was installed when the towers were built.

56 minutes for 2; 17 hours in truly raging fires for other steel structures and no collapse. Is American fire exceptional? Or is American steel not at all exceptional?

5. Voila, pancaked building.

The pancake notion was discredited long ago. It was pure bunko. NIST itself said no pancake theory. Reality, ie. no pancaked floors at the bottom, would illustrate that to even a casual observer.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[Je suis Omar]

Wait... you're going to go with 'witnessed' molten steel ? How do you identify the temperature ?

So much for science...

Eyes Wide Shut: Gross Negligence with NIST Denial of Molten Metal on 9/11 - AE911Truth.org

Are you aware of the significance of molten steel and iron microspheres being found at the 911 sites, Michael?

When you watch the video, as I know you will, note the molten steel running down the side of one of the towers before it collapsed.

Do you understand the significance of this?

[Je suis Omar]

Well we all know by now that 7 was taken down by a death ray from Arcturus. Little buggers wanted in on the fun I guess.

What we all know by now, even those of us who can't seem to stop with the childish comments, is that the official story regarding the collapse of the buildings is specious nonsense.

[Je suis Omar]

Wasn't Dick Cheney seen running out the back door with some empty gas cans and thermite ?

George, you really shouldn't be here, save that you might learn a wee bit. You have illustrated that this is all far beyond you with you quoting a thoroughly discredited theory that was rushed out a few months after 911.

Even NIST says its bogus. Why wouldn't a body who pretends competence know all this?

[On Guard for Thee]

1. Steel looses about 50% of its strength at 1100F,

First, a source. And your point is?

2. Jet fuel burns at up to 1500F.

That doesn't describe the situation in 1 & 2. Try to be more scientific.

3.so take a huge slice out of a building with a fuel laden airliner

"Fuel laden" - how much fuel? The towers were designed for just such an event. How many times do you have to be told.

4. and then dump the burning fuel vertically through the structure including the elevator shafts, and just wait a while.

Yeah, like a whole 56 minutes and down #1 comes, removing the massive central core columns as if they didn't exist. A gravity collapse that ejects multi ton steel components hundreds of feet laterally. Gravity works vertically.

Some 220 acres of concrete, reinforced with rebar, 4 to 5 inches thick, bolted to the steel pans is pulverized into fine dust by all that reserve gravity power that was installed when the towers were built.

56 minutes for 2; 17 hours in truly raging fires for other steel structures and no collapse. Is American fire exceptional? Or is American steel not at all exceptional?

5. Voila, pancaked building.

The pancake notion was discredited long ago. It was pure bunko. NIST itself said no pancake theory. Reality, ie. no pancaked floors at the bottom, would illustrate that to even a casual observer.

What have be discredited are the silly notions the conspiracy folks have tried to sell. Over and over again. I bet your next one will be about the dust debris popping out of the sides of the buildings as they pancake and trying to say it shows evidence of preset explosives. Thats a hip slapper for sure.

[Je suis Omar]

A trip down Memory Lane....why did the WTC structures collapse.....science....and engineering !!!!

The perimeter tube design of the WTC was highly redundant. It survived the loss of several exterior columns due to aircraft impact, but the ensuing fire led to other steel failures. Many structural engineers believe that the weak pointsthe limiting factors on design allowableswere the angle clips that held the floor joists between the columns on the perimeter wall and the core structure (see Figure 5). With a 700 Pa floor design allowable, each floor should have been able to support approximately 1,300 t beyond its own weight. The total weight of each tower was about 500,000 t.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

Here's the same article with comments. I know that you will really want to read this, B_C.

Oops, my bad. I forgot the link.

http://www.911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/experts/articles/eagar_jom/eagar_0112.html

Edited April 1, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[Je suis Omar]

What have be discredited are the silly notions the conspiracy folks have tried to sell. Over and over again. I bet your next one will be about the dust debris popping out of the sides of the buildings as they pancake and trying to say it shows evidence of preset explosives. Thats a hip slapper for sure.

I have to note how thorough you were in addressing my responses to your contentions.

Still with the totally discredited "pancake" meme. How does 220 acres of concrete blown up into flour sized particles pancake?

[bush_cheney2004]

George, you really shouldn't be here, save that you might learn a wee bit. You have illustrated that this is all far beyond you with you quoting a thoroughly discredited theory that was rushed out a few months after 911.

Even NIST says its bogus. Why wouldn't a body who pretends competence know all this?

Really....I shouldn't be here ? I disagree...I am here...in the USA....that's where this forum is too.

The elephant gives you so much to talk about, and the means to do it.

[Je suis Omar]

Really....I shouldn't be here ? I disagree...I am here...in the USA....that's where this forum is too.

The elephant gives you so much to talk about, and the means to do it.

No mention of your pretence that you were somehow informed on the topic under discussion??!! Just more disingenuousness.

This is highly illustrative of the emptiness of the official government conspiracy theorists. They pretend they are knowledgeable, informed individuals when in fact all they do is repeat memes, government lies, media propaganda, hearsay, ... .

Ask for informed participation and the results are downright dismal. There's really no need for this degree of ignorance. There are many good, honest sites that report the facts, the science.

Here's one,

The Best 9/11 Evidence - Richard Gage, AE911Truth, ReThink 9/11 & The Path Forward

[poochy]

i also heard that there were no other combustibles in those buildings.

[Michael Hardner]

Do you understand the significance of this?

Yes... the fact that a bug-eyed nut calls somebody a 'LIAR !' at the end of the video proves you're not as interested in science as you dream you are. You're really interested in nuttiness.

How exactly these firefighters knew this was molten steel, or other metals (that can melt at far lower temperatures) is yet to be explained. Science. GO !

Here's a Ryerson professor explaining why the theory doesn't hold up:

Claims that thermite was used is undermined by the fact that no barium nitrate was found in the debris. He estimated that 61,000 pounds of thermite would have been needed. Again, it would have been impossible to set this up without someone noticing. Claims that sulfur was a signature of thermite/thermate are silly, because both the elevator shafts and stairwells were constructed with drywall, which is gypsum (calcium sulfate with 18% sulfur content).

Claims that molten steel was still flowing 21 days after the attacks are implausible. He showed one slide that supposedly depicted white-hot metal being observed by workers; it was actually just a worklight, as a video showed.

There is no good evidence that there were pools of molten steel. Many metals were at WTC, and low-temperature alloys could easily have formed. NFPA 921 says "if this occurs it is not an indication that accelerants were used or were present in the fire."

http://recursed.blogspot.ca/2009/03/911-truthers-meet-their-waterloo-ron.html

[Je suis Omar]

... I bet your next one will be about the dust debris popping out of the sides of the buildings as they pancake and trying to say it shows evidence of preset explosives. Thats a hip slapper for sure.

I'd love to hear your ideas on how the concrete, the rebar, the steel pans, all blown up into pyroclastic clouds of fine particles would have the power to create your "dust debris".

[poochy]

I'd love to hear your ideas on how the concrete, the rebar, the steel pans, all blown up into pyroclastic clouds of fine particles would have the power to create your "dust debris".

lol, it's called physics dude, you should learn some, you seem to have a lot of time on your hands. www.amazon.ca/Physics-For-Dummies-Steven-Holzner/dp/0470903244 that should get you started

[Je suis Omar]

Yes... the fact that a bug-eyed nut calls somebody a 'LIAR !' at the end of the video proves you're not as interested in science as you dream you are. You're really interested in nuttiness.

You're upset, Michael, because a "bug eyed nut", your words, called somebody a liar. You don't see the hypocrisy? And then you quote a source that maligns people in most every sentence. And you don't see the hypocrisy?

I can stand the heat and still do the science. Can you?

How exactly these firefighters knew this was molten steel, or other metals (that can melt at far lower temperatures) is yet to be explained. Science. GO !

Not only firefighters. Are we to consider that you figure them the dumbest of the group? But we know there was molten steel from the pictures, from FEMA's description, from the NYT, who said this was the deepest mystery of all".

You saw, with your own eyes, molten steel pouring from the side of one tower. Why do I have to remind you of these things?

Edited April 1, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[Je suis Omar]

Claims that sulfur was a signature of thermite/thermate are silly, because both the elevator shafts and stairwells were constructed with drywall, which is gypsum (calcium sulfate with 18% sulfur content).

--------------

The above has been refuted by an experiment done by a professional engineer.

Jonathan Cole - 9/11 Experiments: The Mysterious Eutectic Steel - AE911Truth.org

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3YuDKUCALtU

[Je suis Omar]

lol, it's called physics dude, you should learn some, you seem to have a lot of time on your hands. www.amazon.ca/Physics-For-Dummies-Steven-Holzner/dp/0470903244 that should get you started

Those don't appear to be YOUR ideas, Poochy.

And your link takes me to page one of this thread.

(Hello, NSA)

[bush_cheney2004]

Ask for informed participation and the results are downright dismal. There's really no need for this degree of ignorance. There are many good, honest sites that report the facts, the science.

No, the goal is not participation at all, just the usual Truther disinformation agenda. Forum members engaged this topic long ago from many angles, and nothing you have posted so far contributes anything new. Our views are just as "informed" as yours....we have web browsers and search engines from the elephant too.

[Argus]

When you watch the video, as I know you will, note the molten steel running down the side of one of the towers before it collapsed.

Do you understand the significance of this?

Do you understand it was actually aluminum mixed with every sort of debris imaginable??

[Je suis Omar]

All you have to do is watch the video of the towers collapsing to understand the reference to a pile driver.

The pile driver theory is as dead as the pancake theory. Note that NIST has based its entire approach to the global collapse of WTCs 1&2 on the pile driver theory.

9/11 Experiments: The Arbitrator of Competing Hypotheses

[Je suis Omar]

Do you understand it was actually aluminum mixed with every sort of debris imaginable??

How come you never got back to me on that other posting, Argus?

Can you give me a source to back up your contention?